Sara Ney Unfiltered: 50 Books, Tropes, & Romance Writing Chaos
May 19, 2026
Featured Guests:
Sara Ney
Sara Ney is a bestselling romance author known for her sports romances, college romances, and fan-favorite series including How to Date a Douchebag, Jock Row, and Campus Legends. With more than 50 published books across indie and traditional publishing, Sara has become a staple in the contemporary romance space thanks to her humor, unforgettable banter, emotionally grounded love stories, and wildly addictive characters.
Her upcoming releases include Married to the Scottish Player and Revenge Puck.
Romance author Sara Ney joins us for one of the funniest and most unfiltered conversations we’ve had on the podcast yet. From writing 50+ romance novels and navigating BookTok-driven publishing trends to hockey romance, favorite tropes, spicy scenes, and rapid-release writing schedules, Sara pulls back the curtain on what it actually looks like to build a long-term career in romance publishing.
We talk indie vs. traditional publishing, bookstore signings, writing routines, weird author quirks, reader expectations, and why every ex-boyfriend somehow thinks the book is about him. Sara also gives us her best meet-cutes, favorite romance dynamics, and accidentally coins what might be the greatest romance-writing tagline of all time.
In This Episode
the now-infamous hot dog story
“foreplay is my forte”
why dry humping deserves a comeback
BookTok trend pressure & publishing chaos
Starbucks writing rituals
writing 50+ books without losing your mind
fake dating, hockey romance & favorite tropes
why romance readers know exactly what they want
Married to the Scottish Player
Sara Ney
Wrangling lumberjacks for Star Lake’s Fall Fest has wedding and event planner Annabelle Franklin ready to saw some serious wood. When her best friend suggests a staycation, she’s all in. Too bad the cabin she books is already occupied—by a brawny Scot who just won’t budge.
The good news? Callum “Maverick” McBride has abs to spare and a voice that could fell trees (and drop panties). Did I mention he owns two kilts? Recuperating from surgery, the Arizona linebacker just wants privacy. And since he was there first, he refuses to give an inch.
As sparks start melting the ice between them, they concede to sharing the cabin. But after crashing a wedding—and waking up hungover with matching gold rings—any boundaries established are quickly forgotten.
Turns out Annabelle and Callum’s marriage is legit. And fate has another wee surprise in store. They discover that sometimes the best mistakes in life are the ones you choose to keep.
-
Cait (00:00)
So a funny story about that, best friend was on it. She was on like armchair expert doing like the anonymous thing about her and her husband in their house. No, my friend Lee that I went to, one of my friends I went to Florida, yeah, she did a meet cute story. So they told her basically the morning of that she was gonna be on it that day. So my husband owns a recording studio, so she was.
SARA NEY (00:05)
shoot.
Yes!
Jenna G Judith (00:10)
Jenny?
SARA NEY (00:14)
⁓ like meet cute. I love that.
really? And she's like.
Cait (00:28)
frantic like eight in the morning calling. She can, John get me into the recording studio. I have to like do all this. And so she, but she was able to get into the recording studio, but she was freaking out, like freaking out. Yeah.
SARA NEY (00:34)
Yes.
I've actually submitted
a story for a wild card and have yet to be chosen. I've got a story that involves Megan Quinn, a pimp, ⁓ hot dogs.
Cait (00:46)
Mmm.
Jenna G Judith (00:49)
bummer. Missed opportunity.
SARA NEY (00:56)
I'm not kidding, like 2017, Meghann Quinn and I went to New York really quick, because she was doing a cover shoot and she didn't want to go by herself. So we go to a Broadway play, have tea, and then afterwards we're like, we're starving, let's get a hot dog. They've got these hot dog stands, Gray's papaya. We're like, it's Wednesday, why are the streets completely empty in this part of town? But that's fine, let's go get a hot dog anyways.
Jenna G Judith (01:21)
you
SARA NEY (01:24)
Long story short, a pimp walks in wearing, I'm assuming that's what he was, purple fur coat. There are three other gentlemen in there yapping away. We get our hot dogs, I get mine. It's got a little bit too much ketchup. Pimp brushes my arm. My ketchup gets on his fur coat. He looks at me, he looks at the coat. He's like, bitch.
Jenna G Judith (01:47)
shit.
SARA NEY (01:51)
You're gonna. Meanwhile, the three guys start beating the shit out of each other. The pimp jumps on top, starts beating the shit out of the three guys. Megan starts to tremble as like literally tables go flying. They're breaking. It's like milk is like dripping down the windows. I start eating the hot dog because I don't want it to get cold.
Jenna G Judith (01:53)
you
What is this life?
SARA NEY (02:19)
I've assessed the situation, there's no immediate danger. She's like behind me. Literally, I'm like finishing. Anyways, the fight spells out onto the road, the sign gets knocked down, everybody's gone. And then there's other dudes like, man, they owe me a hot dog. The pimp looks, we lock eyes one more time before he sprints down the street.
And then we hopped in a cab and tried to get back to our hotel.
Jenna G Judith (02:51)
Perfect.
Cait (02:53)
You know what?
SARA NEY (02:53)
Why haven't
they called me yet? I would have made the story so much better.
Cait (02:56)
We don't even need to do this. That's all I needed today
SARA NEY (03:01)
I know
Megan's like, what is wrong with you? I'm like, Megan, there were no weapons. It was fine. It was fine. So. Yeah, yeah, it was just fist-to-cuffs
Cait (03:05)
That's so funny.
Jenna G Judith (03:05)
The hot
dog was getting cold. Yeah. It was just fists.
Cait (03:10)
There were no
weapons. That was the assessment.
Jenna G Judith (03:13)
You
⁓ God.
SARA NEY (03:18)
Anyways, hi welcome
Jenna G Judith (03:21)
No, welcome to you! You just...
Cait (03:22)
I don't
SARA NEY (03:24)
Welcome
to you! I haven't seen you in ages! Do you know we used to be neighbors, right? Yes.
Jenna G Judith (03:29)
Yes.
Cait (03:29)
Okay, yeah, she did, but I want the actual
origin story here because she was like, I should get my friend Sarah. ⁓ She writes books, and I was like, Sarah? She's awesome. What are you talking about? I didn't know you guys knew each other.
SARA NEY (03:41)
Not only did freaking
Jenna like designed a logo for my ex-husband's business, like are you designing anymore? Do you dabble?
Jenna G Judith (03:55)
So I really only design for like the pod
SARA NEY (03:58)
I mean, yeah, but you're so creative. You should like, you know.
Jenna G Judith (04:01)
that I am, I still
I like just to design for fun versus like the pressure of having to get it right.
SARA NEY (04:05)
Yeah, you're like,
that's like how I love it.
Jenna G Judith (04:10)
You know, exactly. Yeah, so Sarah...
SARA NEY (04:13)
So and Cait, where
are you?
Cait (04:15)
live in Mass. And Jenna and I met through women's fiction writers. And so that's how we started this. But yeah, she's our secret weapon. Like, her design is like, I don't know what we would do.
SARA NEY (04:30)
Yeah, I know.
but our origin story is that like I started writing when my daughter was,
two maybe she's 16 now Jenna live next door were you still in were you in college
Jenna G Judith (04:48)
No, I was, no I was in college when she was born. Yeah, because I graduated high school. Yep.
SARA NEY (04:52)
Yeah, yeah, you were in college. We live next door to her parents.
I never came outside ever. And so I'm pretty sure parents were like, what's up with the neighbor girl? She's like, and no, I was writing. I was writing Warren. And so Warren. So yeah, we live next door to her parents. ⁓
Jenna G Judith (04:59)
You're just writing!
Yes, Warren, even though Warren doesn't listen, it's fine.
Yep.
SARA NEY (05:21)
We go to the same church and yeah, I just was constantly toiling away. don't, I don't know. Like after my first novel, I like haven't stopped writing. So that first one was always, you know what it's like, you know, you always like, I want to write a book. It's on, it's like what every little girl who loves to read one day I want to write a novel one day. And it was after that first one I've been doing it since so.
Jenna G Judith (05:32)
No, you have not.
Cait (05:35)
I believe it.
SARA NEY (05:51)
I literally never come outside and this is a spray tan. I am pale.
Yeah, these are all my...
Jenna G Judith (05:58)
Just a few.
Cait (05:59)
There's so many!
SARA NEY (05:59)
So
all my books, I know I'm 45 50 with the co-author books. Yeah, I know. I know.
Cait (06:00)
So many! ⁓
Jenna G Judith (06:03)
Yeah.
Wow!
Cait (06:08)
my gosh.
That's incredible. I just finished Fake Lumberjack.
Jenna G Judith (06:13)
Yeah.
SARA NEY (06:14)
Yeah.
⁓ yeah and I here's the next one I got I already have like the I know this one comes out in June
Jenna G Judith (06:17)
Yep, it's right there.
Cait (06:17)
Sure did.
Sure did.
Jenna G Judith (06:20)
my God, I saw your cover reveal. So excited.
Cait (06:23)
my
gosh. Yes.
Jenna G Judith (06:27)
Yup.
Cait (06:28)
Can we get it? Can we get it?
SARA NEY (06:29)
So.
Jenna G Judith (06:32)
Can we get her?
SARA NEY (06:32)
Yeah, I got a box of fake lumberjack
here. I've got a box of these they're sending me the third one I know I I ⁓ Yeah, last year, that's why it seems so rapid fire Do you know what I mean? Like when authors are like June July August well, I know that like this one here That came out in March was done like two years ago
Jenna G Judith (06:40)
Already? When did you write those?
Mm-hmm.
Cait (07:01)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (07:01)
Yup.
SARA NEY (07:02)
and then the next book comes out next fall. So anyways, yeah. I have gotten this podcast completely off the rails. How do you, this is.
Jenna G Judith (07:08)
Wow.
Cait (07:09)
That's a crit, that's crazy.
Jenna G Judith (07:13)
No, this is the podcast. No,
Cait (07:14)
So this is what we do.
Jenna G Judith (07:17)
this
is it. Like we literally just drink and... ⁓
SARA NEY (07:19)
Does anyone have any questions about dating?
Cait (07:23)
I
so many questions.
SARA NEY (07:25)
I love giving dating advice. Sex, dating.
Cait (07:30)
I feel like my dream is to write, when I was reading Fake Lumberjack, I was like, I wanna write this, but like me and my husband's story, because I married the man from my favorite band. And I was like, Sarah would kill this story. And that's like always been my dream, is to like write that as Fake Lumberjack.
SARA NEY (07:46)
How did that happen? Hold on, let me clean off.
Jenna G Judith (07:50)
you
SARA NEY (07:54)
So tell me how you
met.
Cait (07:56)
Yeah,
no, I played the long game. I met him in college, but we didn't like hang out in college. He just like he went to the same college that I did and then he like Yeah, the first time I saw him I was like
Jenna G Judith (08:04)
but you saw him and you're like, I want that.
Cait (08:08)
Absolutely. And then he went and became cool and popular and toured the country for 10 years. And I just kind of like stayed Facebook friends like with him because like I knew him before, you know, I was like cool. Like I was like played the long game. And then he responded to one of my messages one time and I was like, hey, like, do you want to grab coffee to like say hey?
SARA NEY (08:20)
Sure.
What was the message? ⁓
Cait (08:32)
This is how manipulative I was. His dad owns a theater company, and at the time I was starting a theater company. His dad owns a children's theater, like educational facility, and at that time I was starting a children's theater company in DC on my own, and I was like, hey, like I really wanna, isn't it just such a coincidence? I was like, hey, like do you remember me from college?
SARA NEY (08:43)
Huh?
What a coincidence.
What a coincidence.
Cait (08:57)
We, I had been to freaking like 15 of his concerts already, like just like obsessed, but yeah. And I was like, I would love to like get a tour of your family's like theater and all this stuff and like connect with your dad and ask him some questions. I just remember back in college, you know, your family did that. And he was like, absolutely come by.
SARA NEY (09:16)
Sure. Did he see through your
Jenna G Judith (09:18)
⁓
SARA NEY (09:19)
like thinly veiled, like your thinly veiled offer to tour his facilities?
Jenna G Judith (09:23)
you
Cait (09:30)
I don't think, but that first meeting, I locked it in though. You know what, that was, and then we met up for coffee and I totally locked it in and here we are now. But I was a, yes, huge fan of his band. And I was like, this is gonna make, I need to write this romance novel. It will be fictionalized, but, and I was like, reading Fake Lumberjack, was like, Sarah would kill this story. We need to.
Jenna G Judith (09:32)
I don't think he got it.
SARA NEY (09:33)
You're so cute!
Mmm.
Bet you I bet you were.
Jenna G Judith (09:54)
Yes.
SARA NEY (09:58)
⁓
Have you read the Kylie Scott series about each of the band members? There's like the drummer, the guitar player. ⁓ Lick is like the guitar player story. And then there's lead singer. Yeah, check it out. Really good. I think they made like a passion flick series out of it.
Jenna G Judith (10:07)
new.
SARA NEY (10:26)
but there are some of my favorite books. I ⁓ reread the one about the guitar player all the time. I don't keep a lot of paperbacks anymore, but I have all those. Well, do these even count? Like I don't, you know.
Jenna G Judith (10:33)
Hehehe!
Cait (10:33)
It's not okay.
Jenna G Judith (10:37)
Just your own.
Cait (10:40)
on it.
Jenna G Judith (10:42)
You
Cait (10:44)
That is like,
Jenna G Judith (10:45)
you
Cait (10:46)
I was still amazed at how many, that's insane. ⁓ We wanna know,
Jenna G Judith (10:49)
Yes, yes.
SARA NEY (10:51)
Yeah.
Cait (10:52)
wanna know about book con.
Jenna G Judith (10:54)
my god, tell me about bookcon.
SARA NEY (10:55)
well, first of all, when I pulled up in the taxi, well, let me digress. Okay, so I had seen on threads that the last chapter had table space and they're like, hey, if you're an author, blah, blah. And I love Amanda at the last chapter. And I thought there's no way by the time I've seen this post.
they're gonna have a spot for me to sign because they were doing like three hour time slots or whatever. And there's only so many hours in a day and it's only open till five. So anyways, she was like, oh, we'd love to have you blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, great, I'm gonna, is it okay if I bring books to give away instead of having you sell them? So I brought a hundred copies of this book. It's a hockey, it's a hockey romance. And I,
⁓ I checked them in my luggage and I had two bags that were like 70 pounds, thanks Delta, and schlepped them to the Javits Center, which is massive. And the line was like four city blocks and around the corner. By the time I got there at 11 o'clock and now it had already opened. And I don't know if you saw the pictures, but it was
crazy. And then it was so overwhelming that I did not leave the table. I thought about it. I'm like, okay, Christmas gifts. You know, there were so many cool vendors. There was so much cool stuff. And my stepdaughter loves to read and I thought, I'll get her some Christmas stuff. But I didn't have the energy. It was wild because I ran out of books within 45 minutes.
Cait (12:53)
Holy shit.
SARA NEY (12:54)
So I mean,
people were in line to get them signed and then they had a handful of Love on Ice that we blew through in that amount of time. so within an hour, I was like, OK, I guess I'm leaving. So I was only there for like an hour. Signing. It was wild. If I'd have known, I would have had like 500 paperbacks. I would have brought
Jenna G Judith (13:12)
my god.
Cait (13:16)
my
God, there was that many people.
SARA NEY (13:24)
Do know what I mean? Like, woefully unprepared.
Jenna G Judith (13:25)
Yes!
Cait (13:25)
How are people doing that
SARA NEY (13:26)
But I can see, I've been to a few signings like where fists are being thrown and people are fighting and book.
Like Book Bonanza was wild. I didn't go to the last one because I was exhausted. But the one before that, 2022 I think was the last Book Bonanza I went to.
There's no way to prepare. I can't imagine if I was a staff at book con and like the sheer, like the terror that would wash through me seeing a crowd. was like, I don't even like people rushing a field at like after a Packer game. Like that's how it would feel.
Jenna G Judith (13:56)
No!
SARA NEY (14:11)
I'd shit myself. Yeah. I was in and out because there was really no reason for me to, I'm like, I can't, like, it's, I don't even.
Jenna G Judith (14:13)
No thank you.
SARA NEY (14:22)
just here for the snacks and the free pens and the chapstick.
Jenna G Judith (14:22)
I-
Always.
Yes, give me some free bookmarks too.
SARA NEY (14:32)
I know give
me the chapstick. I have a whole drawer of chapstick from years all of my book book signing days. I'm like chapstick. So I haven't had a chap lip in years.
Cait (14:43)
Is that the tip, Jeannie? You bring a lot of traffic.
SARA NEY (14:49)
Well, know, authors have like the, I don't know if they do that anymore, but like with their names on it, I'm just like, ugh.
Jenna G Judith (14:55)
Okay, so I need to ask though, like what is your insane travel schedule like? Because I feel like not only do you travel for like book stuff, but you travel for leisure a lot. So are you home ever?
SARA NEY (14:58)
shit, I'm like...
⁓ I tried to tie, listen, I brought my kids. Merritt is 16 and my stepson is going to be 16. And so I thought, they're gonna love New York City. Use my companion pass, use some Capital Ones miles. Everyone was thrilled. They got to have, you know, they were hopping on, hopping off the buses while I was pedaling my wares.
Jenna G Judith (15:17)
Yes.
SARA NEY (15:43)
⁓ I, when my daughter was younger, it was kind of in the height of like the douchebag series, like all that was going crazy. I think people were doing way more. So I would do like 10 signings a year. And now I, the kids are in sports. I really ⁓ do way, way less. ⁓ So this was fun because I
Jenna G Judith (15:53)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (16:13)
they're old enough now to appreciate it. Although Merritt's been to quite a few signings. Like we put her to work, she's earning her keep. You know what I'm saying? She's like walking around with swag, walking around with bookmarks, putting, know. But I, if it's somewhere, I think the kids are gonna have fun and I can take, you know, my family now.
Jenna G Judith (16:20)
Ha!
SARA NEY (16:40)
or somebody wants to see Washington, D.C. like Gage really loves history. I'm like, yeah, I'll do Virginia. Yes, I'll do Boston. Like they're into it. And then they can go have a little bit of fun while I, and then we write it, you know, we write some of it off on our taxes. Everyone's happy. So that's sort of how I decide what I'm doing now. You know, so that's how I, that's how I live my life now. The kids, you know how it is.
Jenna G Judith (16:50)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Cait (17:01)
Thank
thick.
SARA NEY (17:07)
Yeah,
well, when they're younger, like they're your little tiny buddy. And then as they get older, all like the evolutions and now it's I'm like the fixer. know, the high like the fixer. And I think the one thing that really keeps us close is like bedtime. Like
Jenna G Judith (17:15)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (17:36)
We talk every, everyone gets tucked in. They love a tuck tuck. So like when they're teenagers, ⁓ that's like, my daughter went through her phase where she's like, didn't want to tell me anything. Middle school, middle school was like, and so I think we sort of got back to ⁓ bonding and being close when I started going in for bedtime every night.
just to, you know, let me tuck you in, da da da. We do the whole like burrito, do do do do do. And now they're like, are you coming in for a tuck tuck? I'm like, you're five foot nine.
Jenna G Judith (18:08)
You
Cait (18:13)
Yeah
Jenna G Judith (18:14)
Bye!
SARA NEY (18:16)
But I'm telling you, even Gage, he's like texting Jeff, he'll be like, are you coming down to tuck me in? The girls when they're home, they're 20, he's got two set of twins that are 20. One's in college, one just passed her boards for cosmetology. They're like, are you tucking us in? I'm telling ya, it's my secret weapon, bedtime. And even if you're not like sharing secrets, like boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
I'm like, what are you going to do when you go to college? So, yeah, my parenting secret. So that sort of like brought us closer. And now it's just like too much information. La la la la la. I didn't need to hear that.
Cait (18:45)
You
Jenna G Judith (18:49)
goodness.
Yeah, so you're like the ⁓ what was that show? wasn't I'm digressed. It's essentially about like Fixers in L.A. ⁓ Ray Donovan, Ray Donovan. Yes. So good. His Rolex game was.
Cait (19:00)
Yeah.
SARA NEY (19:08)
Yes, Ray Donovan. Love that show. Love that show. I'm the Ray Donovan, yes.
Cait (19:10)
you
SARA NEY (19:20)
my gosh, that fucking guy. Do we swear on this pod?
Cait (19:24)
So yes, yes.
Jenna G Judith (19:24)
Fuck yeah. Yes we do.
SARA NEY (19:26)
Yeah, cause like my
daughter will be like blah blah blah so and so I'm like, fuck you fucked it. I swear to fuck a girl. Well, who's her mom? What's her mom's name? Because like, right, we know everyone from here. I'm like, what's her mom's maiden name? Who's her dad? I'll find you.
Jenna G Judith (19:39)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
What's in a douchebag
from high school that I knew?
SARA NEY (19:49)
I'm like, you know how we're gonna get our revenge? We're gonna put her in one of these. We're gonna name her by name. We're gonna hint at it.
Jenna G Judith (19:53)
Yes!
Cait (19:53)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (19:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, like Cait's all worried about her exes being in her book that's coming out at the end of May and I'm like, I don't know man, I think you won.
SARA NEY (20:09)
Listen, I'm gonna tell you whether or not they're in your book. Any guy that you previously dated is gonna assume that it's him. had met dudes that I dated in high school message me and be like, hey, I'm really sorry about that. I'm like, first of all, that was 30 years ago. Secondly, it's not you, okay?
Cait (20:17)
Hahaha, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (20:30)
Wow, how presumptuous.
Cait (20:31)
Stop.
SARA NEY (20:32)
They're gonna message you. They're going
to message you. Be ready.
Cait (20:37)
That was fascinating.
Like they still, my, the fake lumberjack.
Jenna G Judith (20:42)
You
SARA NEY (20:43)
Yeah, am I the douchebag? like, no. I had an ex-husband message me that I married in college. He's like, hey, just, I'm like, my God, were you even a wrestler? No.
Jenna G Judith (20:48)
Yes, but no. Really?
Cait (20:58)
Ha
SARA NEY (20:59)
Get out of here, but I'm flattered you thought of me. And first of all, why are you, how do you even know?
Cait (21:06)
Right, like is your wife reading my book right now? How is that? I keep telling, and I tell my husband, like, I just think that the people you wrote about are gonna see it and they're gonna message you and stuff. I'm like, no they're not. They're like, nobody's gonna read, nobody's gonna read this, but now they're gonna.
Jenna G Judith (21:06)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (21:09)
How do you even know? I-
Jenna G Judith (21:09)
questions.
SARA NEY (21:20)
Mm-hmm.
They're gonna think it's you,
yes. You might as well put it in the dedication and be like, no Brad, it's not you. Bye. Just make that your dedication to the guy I dated in 2014. No, this is not about you, get over yourself.
Jenna G Judith (21:26)
But it's flattery.
Cait (21:30)
You
Jenna G Judith (21:36)
Yes. No Pierre.
Cait (21:44)
Totally, totally. That's so funny because I have so much of that in the book. they're gonna know.
Jenna G Judith (21:44)
I love that. my god.
SARA NEY (21:47)
Yeah, so.
Jenna G Judith (21:51)
You do.
SARA NEY (21:52)
Do you have a pen
Cait (21:53)
I feel like when we started this podcast, Sarah, it was like, what do we want to do? And I was like, I just want to like have drinks and talk like we normally do about writing or whatever the experiences that we're going through now. And then I was like, I want to bring on authors that are super fun. That'll like just come and just talk shit and promote their books, obviously, but like just chill, like just be fun and like hang out.
Jenna G Judith (21:52)
⁓ God.
SARA NEY (21:54)
Yay.
Jenna G Judith (22:04)
talk shit.
SARA NEY (22:05)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yes.
Cait (22:19)
For some reason, people listen to it. I don't know how.
SARA NEY (22:21)
I obviously
Jenna G Judith (22:21)
I don't know why.
SARA NEY (22:24)
love talking about, I love talking about books, but usually I would rather talk shit.
Cait (22:37)
Where are you getting the
Jenna G Judith (22:37)
It's so much more fun.
Cait (22:38)
ideas from talking shit? Like, where are the ideas for these books coming from? You have so many fucking books. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (22:42)
Yeah, because clearly you're an idea machine.
SARA NEY (22:46)
I constantly have ideas, and then I work on while I'm working on something, and all I wanna do then is work on the idea that I'm thinking of, but I have to work on what I'm working on. So it's like an endless vicious cycle. I have a notebook, and there's young adult ideas and college ideas, and there aren't enough
pieces of paper or time in a day or hours in a week to come up with this, but I've been like a daydreamer. All I do is fricking daydream. Like I took a nap yesterday and I'm like, I'm gonna lay here. I'm so tired. I'm gonna lay here and daydream about this idea that I have. And so I laid on the couch and closed my eyes. And then 10 minutes later, my daughter came stomping into the house. And then the dog came charging through the house. And then I'm like, okay.
Jenna G Judith (23:35)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (23:45)
pretend no one's here, pretend you're alone. And then Gage came in the house and then Jeff come, I'm like, ⁓ my God. And eventually I did fall asleep thinking about it, but I can't work on it right now. So I just have to write it down in a notebook, put it away because now, know, publishers will look for ideas like, okay, we want this type of idea in this genre.
Everybody's very trope oriented right now. So I know that my publisher is like, we want one of these three ideas. Are you interested? And so that's how my 2027 release came about with Delacorte. But I had immediately I was like, oh my God, I have an idea like boop boop boop boop.
Jenna G Judith (24:18)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (24:44)
So
based on, you know, aliens, romantasy or cowboys, they were like very specific. This is what we want.
Jenna G Judith (24:53)
Wow. So
Cait (24:54)
Okay.
Jenna G Judith (24:56)
do you still self publish or are you like trad 100 % now?
SARA NEY (25:03)
⁓ I am hybrid, though it's been a minute since I ⁓ have been able to indie publish. I'm working on an indie manuscript right now. I have until like June to finish it before I work on my next. It's a third book in a series. I already have books one and two done.
Jenna G Judith (25:06)
or like a hybrid.
SARA NEY (25:31)
for Bookatour, which is a UK publisher. They published The Housemaid. So I have a deal with them. It hasn't been announced yet. They've announced it, but I haven't, but I'm working on the third book for them and I have to start that in June to be done by my deadline. So I have a little bit of a window. So I'm working on an idea that is high, what do they call it? ⁓
⁓ What's the word? What's the word they're always using? Hold on. I can think of it and let you know. ⁓ Shoot, what is it? I had to Google it when they first said it. I'm what? High concept. That's it. They're like, we really want to be high concept. I'm like, what?
Cait (26:04)
like a high pass.
Like a high concept? are you like... Yeah, like, were you... Okay. Okay.
Jenna G Judith (26:22)
There's so many terms that like I had to learn of like the genres and tropes and themes. I'm like, where are you pulling these from? I don't know. Yes, all the time.
SARA NEY (26:33)
They're constantly changing.
Cait (26:34)
Yeah.
SARA NEY (26:37)
Every day. I'm like, I got a message about one of my books. I can't remember which one, but the person was like, is this closed door? I'm like, what does that mean? Are you gonna see them fucking? Is that what you mean? Like, do we walk in on, are we walking in on someone? Do we forget to lock it? Are there?
Cait (26:53)
Is that what that, but like what does it technically mean in the manual?
Jenna G Judith (26:59)
Are there doors that are closed?
Cait (27:00)
Can I use that word?
Like what is the pair of parameters?
SARA NEY (27:05)
I'm like, what? So I'm like Googling, I'm like, I should know this, right? Like I've been, but these terms did not exist five years ago before TikTok and all that, so.
Jenna G Judith (27:11)
after 50 bucks.
So
do you think it is TikTok that's like, I don't know, like ushering in this thought or is it just marketing crap?
SARA NEY (27:28)
I think that, yeah, I think that's, you I've had a few, and we can yelp about this offline if you want like more information, but these conference calls with the publishers and the PowerPoint presentation based on data and this and that, and like, yeah, TikTok research.
Mm-hmm. So I'm like, I'm getting too old for this.
Cait (27:54)
It is crazy.
SARA NEY (27:57)
Like we want this and that and like aspirational things on a boat. Maybe like this, that, the other, some drugs. But upbeat. It was like that scene in How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days where she's like pitching an article in the meeting and she's like
But our pets had their falling off, but upbeat. Like that's exactly what was going through my brain. Maybe the mom's an addict, but make it upbeat. Like it's a rom-com, the dad's gone. There's no, you know, I'm like, what?
Cait (28:21)
You
Jenna G Judith (28:34)
Like how do you even write that?
SARA NEY (28:37)
And so I did. And they were like, this doesn't sound like your voice. I'm like, well, no shit.
Jenna G Judith (28:39)
Whoa.
but make it a beat.
Cait (28:44)
So
does that make the indie publishing? yeah, we haven't talked to many people who do both or have both experiences. Does that make indie publishing just that more? Because you have this big platform now. Why not own it? Why not make the percentage back for yourself? That must make it so much more attractive at this point.
SARA NEY (28:47)
Put a beat.
Yeah.
I really think that ⁓ being, you know, in business, ⁓ just kind of being diverse, like that's what I'm trying to do. Diversity, ⁓ kind of like spreading out the eggs in the different baskets so that, because we don't know what next year is gonna look like. if, you know, Instagram's great, TikTok is huge. Okay, everyone loves YouTube, like what's next?
Cait (29:19)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (29:20)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (29:38)
What's coming? How's it going to look in a year or five years from now? That's why I wanted to go trad. And so it's like indie trad, like, you know, so better chance of like sort of. Mm hmm. Yeah, right. Yeah. So do I love do I always love? The.
Jenna G Judith (29:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so it you're kind of like
future-proofing yourself, almost.
SARA NEY (30:07)
No, we're to have to cut half of everything we just talked about. You know, like, do I love, ⁓
Jenna G Judith (30:08)
You
No, you're good. You're good.
SARA NEY (30:15)
you know, make it like this, do this. It's like the 12 pages of feedback. Do I love it? Does it influence, you know, it's difficult. but I feel like to kind of stay in the, you've been doing this for 12 years, you know.
Jenna G Judith (30:36)
Yeah. So would you say that you're, I don't know, like still discovering like new ways to write after so many years and like so many different stories and formats and you do collaborations? I feel like you're always finding new ways to like adapt and try new things.
SARA NEY (30:37)
So.
Yes.
Yes, adaptability is huge. I think that's just part of, you know, we're professional, you take feedback. I never looked at reviews as even like the negative ones. I never took them as being negative. Like that's constructive criticism in a form what regardless of like how it's worded like
How can I take this negative feedback and make my writing better? So like, for example, when I wrote How to Date a Douchebag, everybody was like critical of, how short it was, even though it was like, I forget, like 75,000 words. Let's use 75,000 words, okay. So then the next book, I'm like, I'm gonna make this way longer. So then the next one, people are like,
way too long. This is too long. This is before books were 140,000 words, right? We weren't writing books that were like 500 pages back in 2015. And so like, I could have looked at that and been like, I'm not, I'll do what I want, you know? I'm not doing that. I'm like, okay, ⁓ we're gonna find a happy medium. We're gonna, like, because readers are...
so important. And I am not just writing. I can write books that I love all day long, but I really want people to read what I write. Like these are passion projects for there. You know, everything's kind of a love letter. You if you're writing it for your husband, you're writing your story, you're you're writing. You know, just like a daydream is sort of like a love letter. We're just like putting like every single one of these.
I'm like passionate about. And then it's like my new passion is like the next one. So it's just kind of like I walk around sometimes and like lately I've been just like date just on cloud nine. I'm so like, ⁓ and I'm in a good mood and like the stories are flowing and I'm in love with this guy. Like the story I'm writing right now, I've been wanting to write for probably two years.
Jenna G Judith (33:05)
you
Ha!
SARA NEY (33:19)
And I finally get a window and I'm just like, how am I going to take these characters and make them fall in love because they're meet cute? She just does not like this guy. How am going to get her to fall in love? And we already know what makes him likable because we're seeing his point of view.
but she is not seeing the point of view. So at what point do we bang? Like they've got to fuck. But she hates this guy. And it's like a very polarizing like meet cute. Like because he's trying to get her out of her. It's like a you've got mail situation. Like the shop around the corner type of the big guy moving. Okay, it's sort of like that. So it's like
Jenna G Judith (33:51)
Ha!
Yeah!
Yes?
Cait (34:11)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (34:14)
at what point do they like have their moment? Like you can't drag this out. When does she sit? So these are like, you know, I sit there and I'm like in start, you know, in Starbucks, I'm like, all day long. And then I come home and I'm like, hey guys, I can't wait to go to sleep so I can wake up and go back to work.
Jenna G Judith (34:19)
Nope.
You
Cait (34:39)
Yeah, we talk about the transition a lot and how hard, especially with little kids now, like going from writing all day to like parenting little kids when all you want to do is just like keep doing the thing.
SARA NEY (34:51)
Sure. Yes. Because
you really do need to be in a zone.
Jenna G Judith (34:58)
Yes. So like what's your, like what's your ideal zone of like, if I have the perfect equation for getting into the zone, what are like your constants?
Cait (35:00)
I don't know. That sounds awesome.
SARA NEY (35:13)
Well, I'm extremely regimented. I'm like an athlete. Okay. I'm like a high performance athlete. Like, you know, my routine's the same. If I walk into Starbucks and my table that I sit at, if someone's sitting there, I'm like, I'm like ⁓ frozen. I'm like, ⁓ and the baristas will look at me and they'll look at the table and they'll look at me and look at, they were all like this. They're like, what's she gonna do?
Jenna G Judith (35:22)
you
Hey.
Cait (35:43)
you
SARA NEY (35:43)
What's she
gonna do?
But I order the same thing every day. I'm highly easy. I would be an easy mark if you were gonna try to kidnap me. But I write every single day, Saturday, Sunday.
Cait (35:54)
So you're right every day.
I know the book that's coming out has taken me many years to write, even just the one to the two, I feel a little bit more process-oriented than I did when I was free balling it, just writing when I could.
SARA NEY (36:13)
Yeah.
Yep, I feel
like most authors would probably agree that the more you do it, the easier, the more fine-tuned. So like the first book takes a year like it did for me. It took me a year to write 55,000 words. And then the second book probably took eight months. And then the third one was probably eight months-ish of working every day with Merritt who was like three, you know. And then like,
six months and then for you know, and then I'm like, okay, three, four months. We're but we're we're 12 years in here, right? Like and so now everyone will say like, you write so fast. You write so fast. I'm like, no, I have been doing this for 12 freaking years. So like that's like I feel like pretty standard when you've been, we all write pretty fast, but we
Cait (36:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (36:52)
Yeah!
SARA NEY (37:12)
you know, we sacrifice a lot too. So it's like riding a bike, the, anything that you do that takes practice, the more you do it, the easier and the better at it you get. And so you're less messy, there's less errors, you're, you know, like, I have a certain way of doing things. I like my margins to be really wide, so it looks like a Kindle page.
Jenna G Judith (37:15)
Mm-hmm.
SARA NEY (37:40)
And some people write, like everybody's quirky, right? Like you write on a full page. I'm like, how do you do that in Word? Like how is it so wide? I like my, you know, I'm like, okay, Kindle page, the wide, wide thick margin on the side. And so, you know, how do you write in Times New Roman? How do you write in Calibate? Like everyone's got their thing, right? Like how are you writing in 10 point? Are you, you know?
Jenna G Judith (37:50)
Yeah.
I'm just thinking of like the bingo card of authors of you have adjusted the margins so it like perfectly fits your point of view. You have adjusted your font sizes. You have like done like XYZ. You've ordered like the same coffee drink. You have foregone a vacation. Like the random shit that authors do.
SARA NEY (38:07)
So.
Mm-hmm.
Right, yeah.
It's.
I straight up was
right the weird quirky shit. Yeah, yeah, I don't have any good luck charms, but I do walk into Starbucks carrying a tote bag. I've got a fuzzy blanket, two pillows, one's for lumbar support and one's for my ass. I have a heating pad and a lap desk.
Cait (38:52)
you
SARA NEY (38:58)
in the bag, it's a giant Lilly Pulitzer tote, like a huge shopping bag. And because if I can't get a table and I'm in a chair, I have to have the laptop, you know, I have to be ready for any circumstances because I'm not walking back out that door.
Jenna G Judith (39:17)
I'm not fucking leaving. I'm not fucking leaving. Gotta call in the National Guard.
SARA NEY (39:20)
You have to drag me out of this fucking place and people always
walk in and they look at me they take one look at me if they've never seen me before and they're like, oh You really came prepared. I'm like I'm not fucking around Jerry
Cait (39:31)
⁓ no!
God damn it.
Jenna G Judith (39:35)
⁓
god. Now, I want a favorite barista now, but I have like a job job.
SARA NEY (39:43)
They're so cute. They
work tirelessly. Like tirelessly to make our mornings bright. They really do.
Jenna G Judith (39:50)
Yes they do. And
poor Cait she's part of...
Cait (39:52)
That's so inspiring. I
feel like so unmotivated. Now that this one's coming out, I'm just like, ⁓ fuck.
Jenna G Judith (40:01)
Like, I just want to...
SARA NEY (40:02)
No, you're gonna feel motivated tomorrow morning when you wake up. Do you,
are you like, do you make your own coffee?
Cait (40:10)
Yeah, I do it here in my dining room. This is my guy. Because if the kids go to bed and I have to, and I'm ready to go, like I need to just have my shit set up. It needs to be here ready to go when I'm ready to go. So if I'm like, I'll fucking tinker and scroll and I'll do all the things if I have to like, if it like hits me, I gotta go, I gotta go. I can't like drive to a place or I can't like, go.
Jenna G Judith (40:24)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
SARA NEY (40:38)
sure,
sure.
Cait (40:39)
That's why the regiment is inspiring though. That's why it's like good to hear somebody say like, you just got to do it.
Jenna G Judith (40:39)
Well, you are also, like, in the hills.
Yeah.
SARA NEY (40:47)
Yeah, you just got
to do it.
Cait (40:48)
So I don't like, I'm having so much fun, but we're in an hour and I don't want to like keep you. I'm like, I could talk to you, we could sit here for hours. So I just want to like, call, like, I just want to.
Jenna G Judith (40:49)
Okay.
SARA NEY (40:55)
Okay.
Jenna G Judith (40:58)
my god, I know. This
SARA NEY (41:00)
Yes. Well-
Jenna G Judith (41:00)
should be like, it should be a reoccurring segment.
Cait (41:02)
Can
we have Sarah on every view up first?
SARA NEY (41:04)
I feel like, thank you,
I agree, relationship questions, pod. I'm dying to answer some sex questions. So.
Jenna G Judith (41:07)
You
Cait (41:09)
you
Jenna G Judith (41:09)
Yes!
Ooh, okay,
I will, I'll couple, this is rapid fire, you can't think about this. The sexiest scene you ever wrote, which book was it?
SARA NEY (41:23)
Okay, The Learning Hours. He is a novice sex person. Like he hasn't really banged any, a ton of people. And this girl that he... This is like 20 books ago. But I absolutely love The Learning Hours. The sex scenes are great because he... They're from his point of view obviously. And he's just... Can't believe he's fucking this chick. She's so hot.
Jenna G Judith (41:52)
And then what was your favorite meet cute so far?
SARA NEY (41:56)
so in How to Lose at Love, he's being paid to dump this chick. Because one of his teammates is too chicken shit to do it himself. So he's like waiting outside of her work. She walks outside. She's like, what are you doing, you weirdo? Like, are you following me? He's like, so-and-so doesn't want to go out with you anymore. And she's like, are you dumping me? And then she's like, can I at least have a ride home? And he's like,
Jenna G Judith (42:19)
You
SARA NEY (42:25)
sure fine. So that's how that whole thing starts.
Jenna G Judith (42:29)
my gosh. Your favorite, like, post-third act breakup moment.
SARA NEY (42:35)
Honestly, I have a hard time doing third act breakups. It's not like my forte. That is one thing that I occasionally will get criticized for. I didn't start actually doing third part, third act breakups until like probably a year or two ago. So yes. So I'd say, oh gosh, I don't, that's a tough one. I don't know. I feel like the first,
Jenna G Judith (42:53)
Really?
SARA NEY (43:05)
Third act breakup I've ever done was in Jock Row. And that was literally 20 some books ago. Because I had a... ⁓ I know. And probably one of the only... ⁓ I love a solid love story. The slow burn, the build up. We're a drama free company over here at Sarah Ney Author.
Jenna G Judith (43:08)
Okay.
Cait (43:21)
Yeah, same.
Jenna G Judith (43:22)
Yes.
You
Cait (43:34)
I love that. I just want low anxiety. I want to enjoy the slow burn build. Totally. Absolutely.
SARA NEY (43:39)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's what love should be
Jenna G Judith (43:44)
And then...
SARA NEY (43:47)
about, I don't wanna find you fucking or in the bed with a girl because she snuck into your room and then you don't believe it. I'm just like, no. That, no.
Jenna G Judith (43:53)
No! Bullshit!
now.
Cait (44:00)
Yeah,
how do you end after that? Yeah.
SARA NEY (44:01)
Forget it. Anyways.
Jenna G Judith (44:03)
I
have one final one. Who was the hottest guy you ever created?
Cait (44:09)
Mm.
Jenna G Judith (44:10)
And from your perspective, from your purview, hottest one.
SARA NEY (44:13)
Okay, again, we're going against the grain here. I love an imperfect character, okay? So a lot of my characters are, the girls aren't gonna look twice at them because they're not the hottest. They've got a broken nose or they've got scars and busted up lips and whatever. mm.
Jenna G Judith (44:20)
Yes. Yes.
SARA NEY (44:36)
I don't know. feel like we're going to pull this one off the shelf. It's called Hard Love. The guy is such... He's hot in a way that he... Okay, here's another Lumberjack callback because his brother's getting married and they're like, for the bachelor party, we're all going to dress up like Paul Bunyan. And he... So he does. And he's got a little like, babe, the...
Jenna G Judith (44:39)
I know.
Cait (45:00)
you
SARA NEY (45:04)
blue ox hanging from his, and he shows up and they're all dressed normal. He's like, fuck you guys. Cause like he's so grumpy and he hates everything. And so he's one of my, like I would love to meet this guy in person.
Jenna G Judith (45:21)
Yes.
SARA NEY (45:23)
You
know, he's just this big strapping dude. those are the types of guys, I know this isn't even an answer, it's my non-answer answer. It's just, they're all sort of like that. The kind of guy you want to play a prank on because they take themselves way too seriously. But in a funny way, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're getting a lot of laughs out of this guy. Yeah. We're getting a ton of laughs from him and his...
Jenna G Judith (45:37)
There.
Yeah, we're like, they don't know.
SARA NEY (45:51)
You know, busted up ego.
Jenna G Judith (45:53)
You
Cait (45:53)
I have one more too. We just did an episode on writing sex scenes and we were talking about our level of how much we like to write them or how comfortable we are writing them and just kind of like tips or whatever. what would be, hey, what was your experience when you first sat down to write that? Because you write really good ones. So what was your initial experience with that? like.
Jenna G Judith (45:55)
you
Check.
SARA NEY (46:16)
Thank you.
Cait (46:20)
Yeah, like what is it, how do you approach that in general? What are your tips?
Jenna G Judith (46:25)
Yeah.
SARA NEY (46:26)
I love this question because I feel like foreplay is my forte. I just came up with that. I've never said that before in my fucking life. Foreplay is my forte. I love foreplay. Not in a way where like we're gonna put the hand down the pants or like, I'm going up her shirt. It's like that tense, like I wanna kiss this person, but like, does she want me to kiss? Is he gonna kiss me?
Jenna G Judith (46:35)
That's your tagline! That's your tagline!
SARA NEY (46:56)
And then like the moment that your lips touch and just like the spots where they're getting the giving the kisses. So I like writing sex scenes, but I also love like a dry fucking moment. bring dry humping back. So I go through these phases, right?
Jenna G Judith (47:15)
You are not the first person
I have heard say this. Yes.
Cait (47:17)
Yeah.
SARA NEY (47:18)
Yes,
so there are a few books where there's like dry humping because I'm like foreplay all day. Why are we banging immediate? Like no, this they're going to want a bone so bad, but there's like no opportunity. So we're going to we're going to do it over the clothes. We're going to take it back to high school where you're in your parents basement sneaky. They're upstairs. Are they going to wake up? You know, my God, I'm chafed. Walking around bullet like.
That's what I love writing.
Jenna G Judith (47:50)
That's so visceral, it's such a visual. ⁓ God.
SARA NEY (47:52)
And then you've got like a lady boner, a lady boner
while you're writing, my cheeks get hot, I'm like burning up inside and I'm like, well, time to go drop off the track jersey because...
Jenna G Judith (47:59)
Yes!
SARA NEY (48:06)
Womp Womp.
Cait (48:07)
You ever listen to your own audiobooks? Like your own like sag scene?
Jenna G Judith (48:08)
I like ⁓
SARA NEY (48:10)
Yeah, your five-year-old runs in.
Yes. Yes. And then your kid comes in and they're like, can I have a
Jenna G Judith (48:15)
Yeah, you need that.
You're at yourself.
SARA NEY (48:19)
was like, okay.
So.
Jenna G Judith (48:21)
It's so funny because it's so true.
SARA NEY (48:22)
But I'm saying like the hallmark.
Yes, and the hallmark of an amazing sex scene. When a reader says, I was reading your book and I had to wake up my husband or I woke up my boyfriend or I woke up my partner to bang because I was at that point or yeah, I woke them up laughing. I'm like, my God, that is like the biggest compliment.
Jenna G Judith (48:40)
And you're like, you're welcome.
SARA NEY (48:50)
You're welcome. So, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (48:52)
Yes, yes, just-
Cait (48:53)
Do
you like listen to your own audiobooks and you're just like, I wrote that? Like I'm jacked up by that.
SARA NEY (49:03)
I have, this
is literally the only audiobook I've listened to. I really do love this guy. ⁓
I think this is it. His name is Tripp and my assistant, Shawna, loves him as well. Jeff has listened to this audio book, but I think that's it. It's the only one I've really, it's so funny. Yes, it's so funny. And I have like, get a load of this. Hold on, like look, these are, hold on. These are like the CDs, the audio book CDs.
Jenna G Judith (49:22)
Really?
⁓ my god.
⁓ my goodness.
SARA NEY (49:39)
I know. Have we seen one of these? Like this is old. Like that's, you know, when the audiobook companies like, yeah. Who even, what do you even do with this anymore?
Jenna G Judith (49:52)
Goodwill, that's what you
SARA NEY (49:54)
well I'm excited for your journeys too and I can't wait to hear more.
Jenna G Judith (49:54)
So we.
Yes.
Yes. But we do end every episode with giving you an opportunity to plug your either your upcoming releases, books that are out now, or if you're going to any signings, just this is your moment to shine because you clearly have been nothing but shining this entire time.
Cait (50:00)
for sure.
SARA NEY (50:19)
I'm so
busy. Well, thank you. Thank you. ⁓ I have a Motlake release in June, June 23rd, married to the Scottish player. It's a one bed, woke up married. It's very, it's fun. It's a fun, he's afraid of thunderstorms. Obviously she's there to comfort him. I mean, what better way to pass the time during a storm than
Jenna G Judith (50:40)
obviously.
Cait (50:42)
And he's Scottish.
Jenna G Judith (50:49)
Snuggle.
SARA NEY (50:49)
dry She's like let
me let me hold you to my bosom. ⁓ And then in August I have a hockey release called Revenge Puck with Bookatour and that's amazing.
Jenna G Judith (51:03)
Well, it has been an absolute joy having you on.
Cait (51:06)
This is, can we just have Sarah every time? This is going be the whole time.
SARA NEY (51:09)
Yeah, just let me know, keep me posted.
Just, and I would love, and we can do like, do you do more than one author at a time?
Jenna G Judith (51:12)
Yes.
Mhm. Yup.
Cait (51:18)
yeah.
SARA NEY (51:20)
Cause
like I can be a guest and then I can have a special guest.
Jenna G Judith (51:23)
Yes!
Cait (51:24)
that would be so fun.
Especially when does Scottish player come out?
SARA NEY (51:26)
Secret special guest. It'll just be like the fucking Brady
Bunch. June 23rd, ⁓ I think.
Jenna G Judith (51:31)
I think.
Cait (51:34)
Okay, well let's get something on the books
for, for June, and then we can have that come out around that release time. That would be super fun.
