She Wrote a Rom-Com That Starts Where Romance Books End
August 4, 2026
Featured Guests:
Lavanya Lakshmi
Lavanya Lakshmi spent 13 years on the business side of book publishing at Penguin Random House, working in sales and business development and on special projects like the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, before making the leap to author herself. Born in India and raised largely in luxury hotels across Beijing thanks to her dad's job in hospitality, she got her master's in publishing from NYU and cut her teeth writing Twilight fanfiction long before her debut. [Book Title] is her first novel: a warm, joyful, DDLJ-loving rom-com about family, an Indian wedding, and two people who start where most romances end.
What if the happy ending is where the real story begins?
This week, we sit down with debut author Lavanya Lakshmi to talk about [Book Title], the rom-com that had us wanting to book a flight to an Indian wedding. Lavanya joins Jenna and Cait to talk about the book's central hook: instead of a will-they-won't-they, this is a how-do-they, opening on a couple who's already together and has to figure out the harder part.
We get into her genuinely wild backstory (an Eloise-style childhood living in hotels, over a decade inside Penguin Random House, and a fanfiction origin that connected her to close friend and fellow author Jessica Joyce), why she built the whole book around her favorite Bollywood movie, and how she layered in Easter eggs that reward superfans without leaving newcomers behind. We also talk green flag men, writing every side character like the lead of their own novel, and why the specificity of a story is what makes it feel authentic.
For romance readers, this is a look behind one of the summer's most refreshing debuts, full of color, sass, and a groom you'll want at your own wedding. For writers, it's an honest conversation about elasticity in the genre, trusting a niche obsession for two and a half years, and the discipline it takes to finally finish the book.
In This Episode
Why the book starts where most romances end, and the "how do they" trope we coined live
Lavanya's Eloise-style childhood living in luxury hotels in Beijing
13 years inside Penguin Random House and working on the Dolly Parton Imagination Library
Her Twilight fanfiction origin story, and why fanfiction was the real training ground
Building an entire novel around a beloved Bollywood movie without over-explaining it
The cover art Easter eggs, and the iconic DDLJ scene hidden in plain sight
Why writing green flag men felt a little revolutionary
Treating every side character like the main character of their own book
Why specificity is what actually makes a story feel authentic
What's next: a book centered on female friendship
Leave and Come Back
Lavanya Lakshmi
Simran Gopal has finally found the kind of love she always wanted, the sweeping, cinematic kind she grew up chasing in Bollywood films, in her best friend's brother, Leo Bridgers. Then her estranged cousin's wedding invitation lands, and everything she's been avoiding comes rushing back. Returning to the New Jersey family home she fled seven years ago after losing her parents, Simran faces two weeks of wedding festivities, buried grief, and the sharp eye of Veena, her family's judgmental matriarch. When a clueless Leo crashes the engagement party, Simran and her cousins launch a rescue mission modeled on their favorite Shah Rukh Khan movie, Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge, to smooth things over before the family finds out the truth. Funny, tender, and full of a cast you'll fall for as hard as Leo does, Leave and Come Back is a debut about family, forgiveness, and what it really means to come home.
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cait (00:00)
Yeah, I like the trophy of a hardcover though. You know, so like I will if I've already read it or listened to it, I think yeah, I
Jenna G Judith (00:06)
Mm-hmm.
cait (00:07)
I usually buy the hardcover for sure.
Jenna G Judith (00:09)
This this was a trophy because it is so different than anything else that's on my shelf. Like,
cait (00:16)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (00:17)
for the best reasons and and I thought the cover art was so pretty. It was just like so fun and joyous and
Gosh, I like wanna go to a Hindi wedding.
cait (00:29)
like la how do I low key get invited to one? I'm literally
Jenna G Judith (00:32)
No clue.
cait (00:33)
Yeah. I I like I'm gonna ask her that. Like how does she have any coming up and can I go?
Jenna G Judith (00:41)
I wanna know what I look like in a sari.
cait (00:43)
I really
do. I I've I've always wanted like like I've always wanted to wear the colors and the clothes and I just like
Jenna G Judith (00:52)
So beautiful.
cait (00:53)
We wouldn't look great. It's not hard.
Jenna G Judith (00:56)
No.
cait (00:57)
And then I think Simran looked a little bit better than I'm gonna look at this.
Jenna G Judith (01:03)
But you know
cait (01:04)
But I wanna wear one.
Jenna G Judith (01:06)
I
just so appreciate it. Like the whole
cait (01:10)
I know.
I just like want to know her story. I didn't really look up too much about her because I was like, I'm gonna ask her. I'm just I'm about to talk to her. Like I'm just gonna ask her all the questions. So like, but I did read her bio in the book and it's insane. It's like the craziest, like it's such a bi it buy it like it leaves you with so many I have so many questions.
Yeah, go look at that thing. That is that is a bio. That's gonna make you like this book was great. It wrapped up really nicely. The bio is what I I want part two of the bio for sure. And I I want her next
Jenna G Judith (01:40)
Bio is a paragraph.
cait (01:42)
book. Yeah, I want her next book because she's a baller and she's so cool.
Jenna G Judith (01:46)
Like how cool.
She's like lived everywhere.
cait (01:49)
And yeah.
I know she's gonna have the coolest story, so I'm here I cannot wait to hear her story.
Jenna G Judith (01:57)
Especially if she's been in publishing like her entire career.
cait (02:01)
Yeah. Then this is
Jenna G Judith (02:02)
And then
cait (02:03)
her first this is her debut.
Jenna G Judith (02:05)
Yeah, but Whoa.
cait (02:08)
anyway, if you have have this book, go read the bio and then come back and listen to this episode. 'Cause you're gonna be like, Whoa, that is like it is cool. It just seems like there's just a lot left to learn. Yes,
Jenna G Judith (02:23)
Like tell me more.
cait (02:25)
tell me so much more. And also the book, like
it's such a refreshing read.
Jenna G Judith (02:30)
It really is. It
cait (02:31)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (02:32)
it was a really nice like palette cleanser between a lot of books and I'm like, I needed that. It felt like a warm hug at moments and especially the ending. The ending was just like just like a sigh of relief and
Like we don't have to have so much anxiety.
cait (02:52)
No, it's like, okay, you're gonna be okay. Everyone's gonna be okay. We're good.
Jenna G Judith (02:56)
It's gonna be okay.
cait (02:57)
it is exactly like the type of thing that we've been talking about with rom-coms and romances recently, where the genre's being pushed a little bit. Like they are more about, like they have everything that you want in a rom-com, right? And like tell me if like you've been noticing this trend as well. But like the rom-com aspect of it is there. It has everything that you
feel comfortable with that you know and love, that you feel safe reading, but there's all these added layers of other things. And I just mean like even like deep knowledge. Like, yes, Chef had the almost kitchen confidential aspect of it and this like kind of bringing the knowledge and the kitchen stuff in. And this is like the cultural heritage aspect of it. And the family aspect of it is so deep and it's so smart and it's written so well that you leave
this book and a lot of other rom coms coming out right now. I feel like this is like what I want is like that we leave it and like it leaves us thinking, it leaves us feeling a little bit not more knowledgeable on a subject. Like and it just is like a good again well rounded read.
Jenna G Judith (04:13)
It feels so authentic. That that's the word that I've been
cait (04:15)
Yeah, and and stay brought that day.
Jenna G Judith (04:17)
like trying to name in all of these books that we love so much. It's like they feel authentic and it's not like a surface level type of book. Like that everyone used to kind of deem romance or women's fiction or whatever the hell. Just surface level of like, it's an easy read. But like, no, why?
Why can't we have like hard-hitting themes and really well researched things and other aspects of literature within
cait (04:47)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (04:48)
our romance?
cait (04:50)
Can I just tell you too what I think that we used to call authentic was voicey.
I think we should s like just like start really getting away from voicey. And sing like,
Jenna G Judith (05:02)
I grew. I agree.
cait (05:03)
this feels authentic. This feels like somebody's talking to me. This feels like and I think that that's what people like and what they want. And saying something as voicey is is not
Jenna G Judith (05:14)
She's here.
cait (05:22)
I've
Lavanya Lakshmi (05:21)
Hello!
cait (05:23)
finally
Jenna G Judith (05:23)
We did
it!
Lavanya Lakshmi (05:24)
I
know. I feel like like this is very thematic, like the end of the Odyssey. We've made it. Somebody pluck a bow or something, like
Jenna G Judith (05:32)
Yes. Accurate.
cait (05:33)
You know what? That's
exactly what this is like.
Lavanya Lakshmi (05:36)
Yeah.
cait (05:36)
One hundred percent.
cait (05:38)
How are you? How's everything been going? How's your release like?
Lavanya Lakshmi (05:41)
I did
it.
Jenna G Judith (05:42)
Yes!
Lavanya Lakshmi (05:43)
It's good. I can't believe I was like texting with someone and it's been over a month already, which feels just wild. Yeah. It's been in the world for a while now. So it's kind of nice because it's not like a new release anymore. And I feel like it's just finding people. So helps my like
cait (05:59)
It is, yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (06:00)
anxiety a little bit.
Jenna G Judith (06:02)
all
of these summer releases, I was like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I'm like, these wow, everyone must just be very tense right now. Because everyone's coming out with such incredible books and I didn't even know where to start with them. I'm like, do I read this first or this one or this?
Lavanya Lakshmi (06:22)
I know. I mean
the nice thing is that it's like such a good problem to have. But yeah,
Jenna G Judith (06:26)
It is.
Lavanya Lakshmi (06:27)
I I think I was more just like like so happy to be in the company of so many great authors more than like like I just am like I I'm of the belief that like the more people read, the more people will read. So it's kind of nice to have so many different books to choose from.
Jenna G Judith (06:45)
Yeah, my gosh.
cait (06:45)
Yeah, it's definitely
been a whirlwind of a summer for sure. what's like the
Lavanya Lakshmi (06:47)
Yeah. Yes. We're not even like we still got a month to go.
cait (06:52)
I yeah, I there's still books coming out. There's like they're still happening. what was like the highlight? What's like the coolest thing you got to do or the coolest event or what was the most fun thing?
Lavanya Lakshmi (07:03)
What was the coolest thing I got to do? some stuff is coming up that I can't quite talk about yet, but hopefully in August it'll get it'll get shared. And that was that was definitely maybe some of the coolest thing, coolest things I've done. but aside from cool, like I think just getting to meet readers who read the book and then like talk to them about it has been so nice. It writing is such a weird little thing where you like
Do it by yourself. And then as you go through the journey of getting to be a published author, you like pick up people along the way, like your agent and your publisher and your editor. And then, but it always feels really small until the book goes out and then all of a sudden it's like, I don't know, in a nice way, it's like not really mine anymore, which I think I liked a lot.
Jenna G Judith (07:48)
I love that. It's like it's everyone's thing,
Lavanya Lakshmi (07:49)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (07:52)
everyone's creation at the end of the day. it's like a community
Lavanya Lakshmi (07:55)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (07:57)
book.
Lavanya Lakshmi (07:58)
Yeah. Yeah. It's just like it's this it's not what I wrote, it's like what I wrote and how you read it. And like there's just this like lovely little meshing of things.
Jenna G Judith (08:07)
Totally.
cait (08:07)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (08:07)
And I especially
Lavanya Lakshmi (08:08)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (08:08)
with this book, it felt like Cait and I were just talking before you jumped on. It felt so authentic and like I was watching the best Bravo TV show ever. And it was so
Lavanya Lakshmi (08:23)
High compliment.
Jenna G Judith (08:26)
Like it
cait (08:27)
I mean.
Jenna G Judith (08:27)
I saw it. I saw like I saw
cait (08:29)
Ha ha.
Jenna G Judith (08:30)
the Sass.
From the aunties,
Lavanya Lakshmi (08:32)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (08:33)
I saw like everyone having anxiety of like, do I say something? And it was like there were some confessional moments, but also it was so genuine. It wasn't like scripted drama. It was definitely like authentic and real and very like relatable. And I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was such a like a joyous book to read. So thank you.
Lavanya Lakshmi (08:57)
Thank you so much.
Jenna G Judith (08:58)
You did a wonderful job.
Lavanya Lakshmi (09:00)
Thank you. That's been
the best part is people kinda like, great job.
cait (09:04)
Right. And we were so we were also talking. it was really hard. I don't love to like look up a bunch of stuff about a guest coming on because I want the conversation to like flow and but I read your bio on the back of the book. And for people listening, we were supposed to record this a long time ago. So it it's been a little bit of time before since we've read it, but I've read your bio on the back of the book and then like I had to sit with all of these questions for so long.
And I was like, I can't look up anymore about her, but I have so this bio deserves its own novel. Like of I
Jenna G Judith (09:40)
Yes!
cait (09:41)
feel like there's stories in this bio. Like I need to know how did you get here? Like what what's the publishing
Jenna G Judith (09:47)
Yes!
cait (09:47)
journey? What how you lived in in a luxury hotel? I need to know the the details. I'm dying.
Lavanya Lakshmi (09:53)
Yeah. You know
the funny thing is like I I I actually do think that I've had a pr like like it was because I grew up because of my dad's job and stuff. So I wasn't like active in any of these choices. But when I look back, I'm like, that's kind of a wild, wild little life I had. so I was born in India and then when I was about four years old, my dad worked for a luxury hotel group. and they moved him out to a property in Beijing.
And China and they're I don't know why I clarified, there's like only one Beijing in the world, but Beijing,
cait (10:28)
Yeah, yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (10:29)
China, and they had this rule at the time where you had to like if you're being hired by the company, they had to provide you with housing. And so the hotels just put you up in the hotel rather than like pay for your apartment. so for a
About 11 years I lived in like luxury hotels when I was a kid, like Eloise style. at one point, one of the suites was on the 37th floor. Yeah. Yeah.
cait (10:50)
That's my first thought. my god. Stop.
Lavanya Lakshmi (10:57)
My favorite thing is when I tell that story, there's like this generational reference divide where I'm like, like Eloise, or the sweet life of Zach and Cody. And it's like you either
cait (11:04)
Ha ha ha.
Jenna G Judith (11:05)
He
Lavanya Lakshmi (11:05)
you relate to what like some people relate to both, but most people are like, I'm one or the other.
Jenna G Judith (11:10)
Like wow, what a divide. That's
Lavanya Lakshmi (11:12)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (11:13)
that's great. I d
cait (11:15)
Yeah.
Does so so where what's so you went to school at NYU,
Lavanya Lakshmi (11:21)
Mm-hmm.
cait (11:22)
but what's the publishing journey here like?
Jenna G Judith (11:25)
Yes.
Lavanya Lakshmi (11:26)
Yeah,
I actually went to school. I went got my master's NYU for publishing because I really wanted to work in book publishing. So I worked at Penguin Random House for about 13 years until very recently. and yeah, I I but I worked on the business side of it. So I was like in the sales part of it, sales and business development. So I worked with things like the accounts, like the bookstores who how much we sell to them, what titles they take, how much they take, things like that, as opposed to editorial.
and then I also worked on things like special projects. So I like I got to work with the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, if which, if you're not familiar with it, Dolly Parton, greatest human on earth, has a program where she gives free books to children between the ages of zero and five. You get a book a month because she wants children, especially children who don't have the ability to access books outside of the library, to be able to own their own books.
so I like worked with on the publishing side of it with that team to make that happen. it's a lot of fun special projects like that. So I've sort of always been in books, but I decided, much like many other people in the pandemic, that I was like, I've always really loved writing. What if I tried writing this book? At the same time, one of my closest friends, Jessica Joyce, was also going through her publishing journey and she was very encouraging.
and we had met through writing like ages and ages ago. We've been best friends for like 15 years. so that's I wrote it. I you know, went like I got an agent pretty quickly, but then we took a year to edit the manuscript and go through it. and then my publishing journey was like two years long. So it is it's very thematic. Everything is taking a very long time. So the Odyssey theme continues, but
Jenna G Judith (13:14)
Yes.
Lavanya Lakshmi (13:16)
yeah, that's sort of how I got here. So this project's probably been like, I would say I started it in October of 2020.
I don't know. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (13:25)
So was okay. Before my current life, I was a graphic designer at
Lavanya Lakshmi (13:32)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (13:33)
a few different agencies, and I always found it really hard to design for myself because I knew not only what like success looked like, but because I was very particular about what I would put out in the world with my name on it versus a client. Did you have that experience when you were writing this of I've seen the greats, I've seen the bads?
I know what works, what doesn't work. Where do I start?
Lavanya Lakshmi (13:59)
Yeah.
a little bit but in in a different order. So a long time ago I used to write fanfiction on the internet. right around the time both of your faces lit up. It's it's I used to write Twilight fanfiction, which is like a very popular fandom for authors coming out because basically it was like romance central, right? People were people were writing
Jenna G Judith (14:23)
Yes.
Lavanya Lakshmi (14:23)
books about two people in love. and when I was writing it,
right right around as I was like getting into the fandom there or right as I was like like deeply into it. that first sort of round of authors whose work were getting picked up by publishing houses was happening. So we're talking like E.L. James, Christina Lawrence for like
cait (14:45)
Mm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (14:45)
their stuff goes getting picked up. then a couple of others like there's some really, really notable authors who all started in Twilight Fanfiction.
somebody who read one of my stories was interning in an agency, gave it to the agent she was interning for. The agent loved it and was like, I'd love to represent you, which was amazing. this was ages ago. This was like 15 years ago. I was like a wee little child. and I was and the reason I say that is because it was my I I had just finished grad school and I was I was like
Earning money for the first time and living in New York City. And I just wasn't disciplined about my writing at all. So that was one thing where I was like not writing quickly enough. I was not really working towards it as a career because like I wanted to work my job and then go out and hang out with my friends. but also because of exactly what you said, Jenna, which was like I got bogged down by that, like, you know, you know that I don't know if you guys watched any of the Marvel movies, but there's like this.
Quote from Loki where he's like, I'm burdened with great responsibility or something something like that, burdened with great intentions or something. And like that was me where I was like, I have to write a Pulitzer Prize winning book. when the truth is like, do I like reading Pulitzer Prize winning books? Yes. Do I want to write one? Like, not really. So I think I had to go on my own journey of like, what do you actually want to spend years and years with? Cause that's what a book is, and and that's
I think really how I came up with this book where I was like, I would like to talk about my favorite movie for two and a half years. So yeah.
Jenna G Judith (16:21)
So you you literally put it
cait (16:21)
Yeah, it's so true. And you do. I mean, and that's why it feels, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (16:26)
feels so
Lavanya Lakshmi (16:26)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (16:26)
genuine because if
cait (16:28)
Yeah, it does.
Jenna G Judith (16:28)
you were obsessed with that movie and your character's obsessed with it, we're all obsessed with it now. So yeah, great. Done.
Lavanya Lakshmi (16:34)
Yeah. That was the most
fun part was getting to write characters who like liked it as much as I did because then I could just write out my feelings for it. Like I love it, but I also am like, hey, this is problematic and hey, I hate this scene. And I could write all of that into this into this book, which was amazing.
Jenna G Judith (16:50)
It was so good. It it I now that I think about it and you said that like you wrote fanfic before this, that like the message board things. I'm like, I see a thread now because
Lavanya Lakshmi (17:04)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (17:05)
that was great. I'm like that like yeah, I know who you are. That was that was beautiful.
Lavanya Lakshmi (17:11)
Yeah, I I'm pop culture. Like
I really, really like source material, I guess.
Jenna G Judith (17:17)
my god.
cait (17:17)
I see fanfiction
coming up though, like off like you said, all the time now. And that's like even something like into the blue, like people are are talking about fanfiction and that every everything that we went through as this like little
Lavanya Lakshmi (17:31)
Yeah.
cait (17:31)
adolescence, like reading or writing fanfiction, it was a training ground.
Lavanya Lakshmi (17:36)
I know. Remember when
Jenna G Judith (17:36)
This is this is
Lavanya Lakshmi (17:37)
it wasn't cool? Like you hid that you wrote fanfiction. and I was in a college class and I was talking to them. They were all about, they were all creative writing majors and they were gonna graduate in a in in a semester or two. And I brought up and I like they were like, how did you start writing? And so I had to share my fanfiction story, and I was like, I used to write fanfiction. And they all like burst into applause and they were so excited. Like they it was, I was cool in their eyes because I was writing it, like legitimately.
cait (18:05)
And like we never get to talk about fanfiction, and like I did wanna.
Jenna G Judith (18:08)
Never.
cait (18:09)
do an episode on this at one point but like
Lavanya Lakshmi (18:11)
Mm.
cait (18:12)
let's chat. like yeah. Anyway
Lavanya Lakshmi (18:15)
Yeah.
cait (18:16)
wherever we left off when the dog was barking in that story.
Lavanya Lakshmi (18:19)
Yeah. I well, I think I was saying like how the the kids these days are like love it and they they see it I think for what it really is, which is probably why all of it either read it or liked it, which is like it's just pure creativity, right? People are just like they love something and that brings you to this space on the internet. And then people are just creating reams and reams and reams of art and word words about it, like how
How lovely to have that. How love like how speak we were talking about connections and communities. Like what a wonderful way to do it. And it's not, you know, nearly as long or even as transactional as publishing. There's like a lot more back and forth. And the thing I loved most about fanfiction was I it it was the first time I was like finishing stories because
I would post a chapter and somebody would reply and be invested. And then I would know that somebody wanted to read it. And so I would feel like, okay, now I want to write this so that they can they can get to the end and so can I. and I don't think I'd really finished full stories before then. So it was like a really good muscle, muscle worker.
Jenna G Judith (19:26)
And
it I think there's something about how millennials were brought up in that we we started the like obsession f like phases of our lives and I don't think we've
Lavanya Lakshmi (19:38)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (19:41)
ever really stopped. Like we Like if We
Lavanya Lakshmi (19:45)
Yeah. We are hyper fixators forever.
Jenna G Judith (19:48)
are and it really shows So when I
I loved identifying with like all of the characters when they had like their little like obsessive like idiosyncrasies. I'm like this this is this is this is me as millennial and
Lavanya Lakshmi (20:05)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (20:05)
I'm never going to apologize for it ever.
Lavanya Lakshmi (20:08)
No, no. It's so it's like shaped us so much, I think.
Jenna G Judith (20:12)
Yes
it has and you hopefully we'll see more of that coming out of authors now because all the millennials are growing up and we're realizing hey we have all this creativity I have to like get out of me Exactly.
Lavanya Lakshmi (20:28)
Yeah. We gotta express ourselves some way.
Jenna G Judith (20:32)
Let it be Bollywood
movies or or writing. Or both.
cait (20:37)
Literally. My one of my best friends was this was like the first time I ever opened up about like loving reading fanfiction was she was like, I used to write when I was in high school and she doesn't anymore, but she was like, I used to write fanfiction and I was like, please tell me exactly what
Lavanya Lakshmi (20:54)
Mm-hmm.
cait (20:54)
kind of fanfiction you wrote. And she was like, guys, Clay Aiken, fanfiction. Like American
Jenna G Judith (21:00)
What the hell?
cait (21:01)
Idol, runner up,
Lavanya Lakshmi (21:02)
Yeah.
cait (21:03)
Clay Aiken. I was like, Whoa!
Lavanya Lakshmi (21:06)
It actually has a whole category. It's called real person fiction. Cause it's like,
Jenna G Judith (21:10)
What?
Lavanya Lakshmi (21:11)
yeah, RPF is like when
cait (21:11)
Things I didn't know.
Lavanya Lakshmi (21:13)
you you when you write fanfiction about celebrities or famous people, basically.
cait (21:18)
So good. And I'm like, I need to like, we'll unpack all this one day when she's ready. But I think like, and so that's why this is so fascinating to me. but I love that in Levin Come Bat, like the the the fandom really plays a role and it it makes the characters so freaking adorable and how they relate to each other, and it's like truly the basis of like how they connect to each other is through.
these movies and specifically these these Bollywood movies. And and I almost kind of love that a lot of us reading don't know the movie or probably have never seen it. And it it makes me want to watch it. And yeah, I'm so invested now. And B,
Jenna G Judith (21:59)
I'm very invested now.
cait (22:03)
it's almost kind of like we we aren't putting our own spin on that movie or our own take on it. And you're not talking about the Princess Bride, even though I think you at some point do. But
You're not talking about things that like are already so ingrained in like what I'm reading
Lavanya Lakshmi (22:17)
Yeah.
cait (22:17)
or watching. And so it's it's such a cool aspect of the book.
Lavanya Lakshmi (22:22)
Yeah.
cait (22:23)
and it's so different.
Lavanya Lakshmi (22:25)
Yeah, there were like two when I was writing this, I knew that there would be like two pretty separate groups of people, people who had grown up with this movie the way I did and like know it like The Princess Bride, you know, like it's their kind of super quotable go-to movie. And then there would be a bunch of people I was hoping who would come to it who hadn't seen the movie, but still needed to like understand.
what role it might play and like how they might have had a piece of fiction that in their own lives that sort of united them like that. And then also sort of understand enough about the plot mechanic mechanics of the movie to understand why the book involves it so much. so it was like a really fine line to like not over explain the movie, but also if you ever watch the movie, there's like
so many Easter eggs where if you watch the movie, you'll n you'll like recognize scenes and s and like sentences and lines from the book. But if you haven't, they just sound like like part of the book, which was like one of my favorite things to do.
Jenna G Judith (23:28)
My gosh, that's so creative and
cait (23:31)
Super creative.
And yeah, the people that are that do know the movie too, it's like how nice is it to see that represented and to see like something that you never get to geek out about or whatever, like in literature and and identify with it. Like it's it's a really cool aspect of the plot for sure.
Lavanya Lakshmi (23:46)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (23:48)
So
Lavanya Lakshmi (23:48)
That
was also another thing. Sorry, you said literature and like it made just sorry, it sprung a thought,
cait (23:53)
Ha ha
Lavanya Lakshmi (23:53)
which is like often going back to the idea of like us being slightly shameful about our fan fiction and stuff like that, like often the things we like or are most influential on us are like very broad commercial things that don't kind of get a lot of
Kudos, but they are the the movies or whatever that raised us for better or for worse. And so I think I really like the idea of being like, this is how pop culture really means things to people. It's not just because it's popular, like people find their way to it and it's and it's really definitive. And it's not just capital L literature that like changes people's lives.
Jenna G Judith (24:30)
Yes, soundbite, done.
cait (24:32)
Então
Literally.
Jenna G Judith (24:33)
Like
that that perfectly sums up why I love all of these books that are coming out. Is that every like it doesn't have to be these grandiose ideas and themes and character arcs and a new take on Wuthering Heights or whatever, but more of just
It can just be fun and it can be referential
Lavanya Lakshmi (24:58)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (24:59)
and it can be a little like like a little niche and you're always gonna find the audiences now. And I love that part about writing too is just you there's an audience for every single little subgenre that we can come up with.
Lavanya Lakshmi (25:16)
Sure is. There sure is. And I think it's like the specificity that feels authentic, right? Cause even if like you neither of you knew what I was being specific about, but in being so specific and a big fan of it, like that translates no matter what the actual thing is.
When he agrees with me, I'm gonna take that as like a hearty woo.
Jenna G Judith (25:37)
Damn it, Winnie God.
This is really funny 'cause w generally like Winnie's like pretty quiet and there must just something in the universe today.
cait (25:51)
Something in the universe. The kids are outside playing. So yeah, so we were talking about too before you came on. What I was just gonna say was how rom-coms right now are so exciting to read. I don't know what if it's like this summer or what's going on, but like the genres being pushed a bit, they're like the same. The rom coms we know and love. And I know like you've got me. I trust you. It's gonna have all of the elements we
Lavanya Lakshmi (26:16)
Yeah.
cait (26:17)
want and make us feel safe.
But like you said, the specificity of topics, like cultures and like different things that I come out feeling so much more refreshed or like I learned something, or like I experienced a different type of book, even though it was a very familiar type of book right
Lavanya Lakshmi (26:37)
Yeah.
cait (26:37)
now. And so I feel like you and a lot of other people that we've interviewed too, like are you're setting up the next generation of rom-com writers to
to have that specificity and to have those those ideas in their writing.
Jenna G Judith (26:53)
Mm-hmm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (26:54)
I
I was at an event, we were talking about this, and it was like four different types of romance writers, but they were we had all written different types of books. And I I think romance specifically has this like I called it like the elasticity of the genre where it can like stretch to accommodate a lot of different types of stories while still not losing its main like points and the reason that you're there, which is like a happy ending and two or sometimes you know, different different variations of people getting what they want. but
It can look so different. And that's why it's so like there's it's like infinitely imaginable the types of stories that can come out of this one specific genre. And I think that's why it's so good right now, because people are really stretching their imaginations to go anywhere and everywhere.
Jenna G Judith (27:39)
Doesn't it make you just like
cait (27:39)
You know, that's such a good
Jenna G Judith (27:41)
like you just wanna quit everything and just go read all the books and every single little like niche
Lavanya Lakshmi (27:44)
Yes, always.
cait (27:44)
Yeah, I do.
Jenna G Judith (27:46)
subgenre? Like I can't even help myself. Like I just wanna go do it.
cait (27:48)
Literally.
What so my next question would be, are you working on more? Are you what is you don't have to tell us what it is, unless you can, but what is like what's next? Not to take away from this one.
Lavanya Lakshmi (28:04)
Yeah.
cait (28:05)
It's brand new, but
Lavanya Lakshmi (28:06)
No, no, no. I I all like, you know, writers are always working like five books ahead. I am working on my next one, so I I can't talk too much about it, but I think the the focus is gonna be female friendship. That's sort of a main driver of it. The the romance is within the structure of that. So I'm really excited because it's like
They say write what you know. And I felt like I wrote family in this one because I know family and I knew and I knew kind of the like a wedding specifically very much. and so getting to write female friendship is like another great love and define definition of in my life. So I'm having a lot of fun with it. Plus, like female characters are so fun to write when you when they're bouncing
Jenna G Judith (28:49)
Yes.
Lavanya Lakshmi (28:50)
off of each other. Yeah. They're just best. Yes, exactly.
Jenna G Judith (28:52)
You wanna talk about some playful banter? Put put two ladies in a scene.
cait (28:57)
It's so much b like it's so true. It's so
Lavanya Lakshmi (29:00)
Yeah.
cait (29:00)
true.
Jenna G Judith (29:02)
Mm.
cait (29:03)
and yeah, I like I didn't even ask you, but like how much of leave leave and come back is part of your life or like compared
Lavanya Lakshmi (29:13)
Yeah.
cait (29:13)
to your to your real life and and relationships. I know that's how it feels.
Jenna G Judith (29:15)
'Cause I I wouldn't be shocked if it was a hundred percent.
Lavanya Lakshmi (29:17)
Yeah.
cait (29:19)
It literally does feel that way. It feels like it's all like.
Lavanya Lakshmi (29:22)
yeah, it's not, it's like, it's weird because it's it's not wholesale like that's my life, but I think there's so much pulled off and like remixed a little bit with another part of it. So like I have cousins and aunts and we have varying types of relationships, and that's where that sort of aspect came from. Obviously the movie, I'm a big fan of it, so it came from there. I'm not married myself, but I have been to so many Indian weddings that I was like, I could write this in my sleep.
So like, you know, and and a wedding is always a good, it's it's like a nice writer tool because then you have so much structure and built in built into your plot. so it's like a nice little shortcut. And then and the audience also kind of has like a nice shortcut towards it, especially if it's a wedding that has elements that they're not always reading about, like an Indian wedding. But you kind of know the gist of it, right? At some point, two people are hopefully gonna make it to an altar, like and everything leads to there. So like it gives your book.
like guardrails for the reader and the writer. And so those were like kind of the reasons I think this book came out the way it did. The other thing that's in the book is there's quite a bit of like for foreign language, like not foreign to me, but like language that's not English, foreign to the to the language of the book. But my family is trilingual. I know so many people whose families are bilingual, trilingual more. I like that thing about there's this one part where she observes that her aunt
like speaks like four or five languages at last count. Like that's
cait (30:52)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (30:52)
true of my mothers and my aunts and stuff. So my mother's my mother and my aunts. and so like that type of small, the smaller details I think are probably directly lifted to the point about that specificity. And the larger stuff is a little more fictionalized.
Jenna G Judith (31:09)
Yeah, 'cause it it feels very like tactile and god damn it, I wanna go to an Indian wedding. Like
cait (31:16)
Yeah,
how did Loki get invited? I mean, we could I feel like
Jenna G Judith (31:19)
Yeah. Who who do we need to talk to?
cait (31:21)
who do we have to talk to?
Lavanya Lakshmi (31:21)
You could just
be at the h hotel where it's happening and I think you could just like like shimmy
cait (31:27)
Exactly.
Lavanya Lakshmi (31:28)
your way in.
cait (31:30)
Exactly.
We my husband's family owns a theater company and they a big
Lavanya Lakshmi (31:35)
Mm.
cait (31:35)
part of their business is they rent out sets for shows that other theater companies are doing. And one time me and John had to drive to New Jersey, like pretty cl I'm sure very similar place
Lavanya Lakshmi (31:47)
Yeah.
cait (31:48)
like where this is all taking place, and drop off in Aladdin magic carpet to an Indian wedding.
Lavanya Lakshmi (31:55)
tracks you know like honestly I'm not surprised I'm amused but not surprised
cait (31:55)
Yes. Literally. And
John had to like teach them how to like maneuver. So they like entered the wedding on a magic carpet. I mean, honestly, it sounds tacky, but it was the most magical shit I've ever seen. It was like incredible.
Lavanya Lakshmi (32:12)
I'm sure. If you're like
it's one of those things much like like rom coms or Bollywood movies where if like if that's your jam, there's nothing better, you know? Like if that's what you're into, fly in on a magic carpet. Like get your do
cait (32:26)
Yeah, like
Lavanya Lakshmi (32:26)
it.
cait (32:27)
do it, it was so spectacular. It's a little bit of a glimpse, but I'm like I I wish I was a guest in that letter. I was like, I to be here. But also that's what, the final day? Is that the end? Like is the actual bake party kind of the end or where does that come from?
Lavanya Lakshmi (32:44)
There's
there's like two big parties at least usually. There's one the night before and the ceremony, and then there's the reception, which is like if you think about Western weddings and they're just like the ceremony of the reception. Sometimes there's one the night before, which is called the Sangeet, and that was traditionally like the the it was people would sing literally, sing and dance during that time. So that often becomes where they do the sort of performances.
But like as it's expanded, it's just become like five nights of parties nowadays. So it's very intense.
Jenna G Judith (33:20)
I wanna know the budget of these things.
Lavanya Lakshmi (33:24)
I know. I feel like there is one day like I don't want to write too many books in a row about weddings, but I feel like there has to be a really good Indian wedding planner book. Like
Jenna G Judith (33:33)
Mm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (33:34)
someone's writing it or someone's gonna write it or maybe one day I'll write it. Cause imagine.
Jenna G Judith (33:38)
You
cait (33:40)
I mean
Serious cause I would watch that reality show. I we had already talked about Bravo,
Lavanya Lakshmi (33:43)
Yeah.
cait (33:44)
but like I would talk I would watch like my Indian American wedding. Like
Lavanya Lakshmi (33:50)
Like my SUT 16 on MTV, but like instead this one. Yes. Yes. I think that's a good idea.
Jenna G Judith (33:52)
Yes! Or there's like my big fat gypsy
cait (33:53)
Exactly. Exactly. I am
Jenna G Judith (33:58)
wedding. That was a good one
cait (33:58)
yes.
Jenna G Judith (33:59)
too.
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:00)
Whoa.
cait (34:00)
Ex
but this like this is the this is so entertaining to me. I would read
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:04)
Okay.
cait (34:05)
all the books. Write another like I would read
Jenna G Judith (34:06)
Yes, I would.
cait (34:07)
every book about Indian weddings. It sounds so fun.
Jenna G Judith (34:10)
Give me sparkles and color and I'm in. Like And and good food? Like what?
cait (34:13)
Ex exactly. Exactly.
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:13)
Yeah. Yeah. That's basically it. Yeah.
cait (34:19)
The food
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:20)
That
cait (34:20)
but the planning, yeah. This book has to get d it has to get done. I'm right here. Okay.
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:24)
Yes. I'm percolating. I'm percolating. Maybe book
Jenna G Judith (34:27)
Okay,
good. So like the
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:27)
three. Yeah. I gotta think about
like who her foil is at the wedding, right? Because that'll be the love interest.
Jenna G Judith (34:33)
The DJ.
cait (34:35)
Is it DJ?
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:38)
He just won't play our playlist. They're really mad at each other.
Jenna G Judith (34:42)
Or ooh
ooh, the best man.
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:46)
Mm, yeah, maybe there's like
cait (34:46)
I don't think there's there's a lot.
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:48)
a history there 'cause as we joke, all Indian people know each other, so
Jenna G Judith (34:52)
Yes
And everyone
cait (34:53)
I'm to like
I literally went to New Jersey where this exactly takes place. So like there has to be like if I'm
Lavanya Lakshmi (34:59)
Yes.
cait (35:00)
going from Massachusetts,
Jenna G Judith (35:01)
There's something here.
cait (35:02)
there has to this has to be a small community. that's amazing.
Jenna G Judith (35:06)
I'm like low key obsessed with this cover art.
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:10)
Yes, isn't it so beautiful?
Jenna G Judith (35:12)
It's perfect. Like I'm
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:14)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (35:14)
a snob about covers. And this
cait (35:16)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (35:18)
but this is this is a surprise
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:19)
I know.
Jenna G Judith (35:19)
to no one that listens to this podcast. But this is just like
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:23)
I feel like that too. Like I look at it and I feel like I'm biased. It's like my own child. But like I'm just
Jenna G Judith (35:29)
Course.
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:30)
like, you are so firstly, you're just like aesthetically stunning, but it's it feels so much like the book. Like the cover feels exactly
cait (35:38)
Mm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:39)
like what you're gonna get in there. and I love that they put an ensemble on there. I love that it's like colorful. I love that everybody seems to be in motion because that feels very true to the book to me too. Like no one's really sitting still in this book.
cait (35:54)
that's such a good
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:54)
Yeah.
cait (35:54)
point.
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:55)
Yeah. And there's like little Easter eggs. So let me see if I can
Jenna G Judith (35:58)
Yes, tell me more.
Lavanya Lakshmi (35:59)
point some out. So in the book, there's like there's east this main part, the main Easter egg is that if you watch the movie DDLJ DDLJ, which is the book movie they're obsessed with,
cait (36:11)
Mm-hmm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (36:12)
this like reaching for each other is actually a scene from the movie that they have. It's like one of the most iconic sort of Bollywood images.
In the way that like Jack and Cait in the front of Titanic are like that's Jack and Cait, Jack and Rose. That's like this kind of level of of icon. So like they really worked it in there. So it's a really lovely. If you're familiar with this, you'll know it immediately. and then they did this. The artist did this lovely thing where I think she just used color to like signify relationships. So like the main families all have like a similar colorway or pattern to them.
And then the main character, Simon, is like slightly different than all of them because she's sort of away from it. And obviously Leo is like slightly different too. I don't know. I just feel like she there's so much thought put in and at first thing, at first glance, you're like, it's beautiful. And then you look at it, and after you've read it, there's like even more to it, which is just my favorite thing.
cait (37:10)
Literally. I saw
Jenna G Judith (37:11)
Mm-hmm.
cait (37:11)
it at the Harvard bookstore
Lavanya Lakshmi (37:14)
Mm-hmm.
cait (37:15)
the other day and it was like it just stands out so nicely. Like I picked it out right away. I was like, my god, that like compared to everything else, it just is like this pink, gorgeous, like cover. So yeah, were you yeah, what was your
Lavanya Lakshmi (37:28)
Yeah. Just very like yeah, pick
pick up a bowl. That's not a word, but we're gonna make it one.
cait (37:32)
Culpable.
We just made it one.
Lavanya Lakshmi (37:35)
It's there's unput downable and there's very pickupable.
cait (37:37)
Ha ha ha.
Jenna G Judith (37:39)
Yes. my god. So if you were to like categorize what was like your best, the most fun part about writing this book, because obviously it was your debut. And
Lavanya Lakshmi (37:54)
Mm, yes.
Jenna G Judith (37:57)
you can't you can't take for granted all of those lovely moments of joy when you were writing.
Lavanya Lakshmi (38:04)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (38:04)
Cause you're like, this is all new and fun to me
So yeah, what
Lavanya Lakshmi (38:07)
Yes.
Jenna G Judith (38:08)
was it that really just made you go like, This is my book. I loved this so much.
Lavanya Lakshmi (38:16)
think there came a point when I had like wrestled all the storylines mostly into where they had to be and like gotten the timeline in order to and stuff like that. And then I just got to like my editors and I did several rounds. and at one point there was they just kept on being like add more detail, give more specificity. And I just got to like imagine the characters very vividly as people.
like fully realized people. And so my the way I I thought about it is, and I have like little little synopses for this. Basically, I like every character in some universe is like was the main character of their own book, and in this character, they're in this book, they're just sort of coming
cait (38:59)
Mm.
Lavanya Lakshmi (38:59)
through this one. And so the idea was like, and I just started bringing in like details from that, you know, like who is who likes what? How do they talk? How do they what is their past like and things like that? And that
became really fun to me because then they started coming off the page to me. And I think they became these characters who like had lived full, full lives outside of my book. And I maybe that's the fan fiction person in me, but I really liked the idea of that.
cait (39:24)
Absolutely.
Jenna G Judith (39:24)
That's such
cait (39:25)
I can really see that in the uncle. The I'm totally blanking on his name, but the uncle who like
Lavanya Lakshmi (39:28)
Yes. A choke, yeah.
cait (39:31)
Yeah, you didn't have to. Like you could have, we could have focused elsewhere, you know, and and let him let him just be the quiet uncle in the background. But you have like some of my favorite, one of my favorite scenes is like when he when they're on the walk all together and Leo gets
Lavanya Lakshmi (39:47)
Yeah.
cait (39:47)
him to open up in front of like the son-in-law. It's just the sweetest.
You can s visualize it so well. As you've said, you can really see these people and like them working together in this big family. So that totally comes across.
Jenna G Judith (40:03)
Like I I
Lavanya Lakshmi (40:04)
Yeah, I think another
thing I really sorry, sorry, Jenna.
Jenna G Judith (40:07)
I'm like, I want more about the
cait (40:07)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (40:10)
groom. He seems fricking
Lavanya Lakshmi (40:11)
Mmm.
Jenna G Judith (40:13)
incredible. Like, best type of guy you want to be associated with, especially if he wants to be a stay-at-home dad. Like, come on.
Lavanya Lakshmi (40:21)
Yes. Yeah. I had I had a lot of fun
with writing like green flag men. Like I from the beginning was like, that you know, you always get these these sort of criticisms of like, is that realistic? And I'm like, whatever, you know, the state of men is so bad that like we don't even want to imagine decent men, you know, like we don't even want to pr like hope they exist out there.
cait (40:46)
sure.
Lavanya Lakshmi (40:47)
but so I was like quite.
There me and my editors went back and forth and they were like, He's a little too dreamy, he's a little too this. In the end, he was a little passive, so we made him a little bit more active and things. Leo, especially. But the both of those characters, Leo and Wishi, like I from the beginning, they that scene where they become like immediate friends was, I think, like really early on there. And I loved the idea
Jenna G Judith (41:09)
my god, I loved it.
Lavanya Lakshmi (41:10)
because I think it I figured mostly women are gonna read this, and a way you signal to another woman that like you are a
your character to root for is like you have friendships. And I was like, so what if they had a friendship with each other and then you know that these two guys are kind of like secure and secure enough in themselves that they can meet a stranger and bond and be like very excited about that.
Jenna G Judith (41:30)
It was the best little bromance moment I've ever seen and I loved it. I'm like, I just wanna I wanna hug you. And like
Lavanya Lakshmi (41:38)
Yeah, I think it's also like two green flag men being like, you're cool? Okay, I'm cool too. Like, you know,
Jenna G Judith (41:43)
Yes!
Lavanya Lakshmi (41:43)
I liked that. Yeah.
cait (41:45)
my god, for sure.
Jenna G Judith (41:46)
Can we have more? I want more.
Lavanya Lakshmi (41:48)
Yeah.
I know.
Jenna G Judith (41:50)
Green flag men.
cait (41:51)
I know, and like the I've I'm not gonna give away spoilers on this at all, but I loved that I loved that Leo like still got his kind of like because the whole time you're just like poor Leo, like I'm feel like and like he's gonna deal. Like
Lavanya Lakshmi (42:05)
I know. Put him through it.
cait (42:08)
you put him through it, but Leo's fine. Like Leo, he's confident, he like knows what he's doing, and he's fine. And I love the wrap-up at the I love how it ends, and I love that him him getting like a little bit of his.
Gets like he gets a little bit bad, you know, like it's great. That's what I'm gonna say.
Lavanya Lakshmi (42:23)
Yeah. Yeah.
I didn't want him to be like giving up everything just to be here. But I think there's also like there's there's relationship dynamics where one partner is just more comfortable with like letting go of things and the other partner's like, no, and that's to me like them, right? Simran's like very stubborn. And I think to be with her, you you're probably somebody who's like a lot more easygoing. So that was what I hoped came across with him.
Jenna G Judith (42:49)
Isn't that that is such a like an obvious thing. Like but putting it like a co making it a conscious choice in a book feels stupidly revolutionary. yeah, like there's there's always one partner in a duo that is more easygoing than the other. And
Lavanya Lakshmi (43:09)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (43:09)
if you are both really stubborn, it will be chaos. So having
Lavanya Lakshmi (43:14)
Yes.
Jenna G Judith (43:15)
Leo be this
like easygoing guy, but he does have his own ambitions. He does like have his own desire and I like just kept coming back to that 'cause he was such a green flag. I'm like, my God, I love you but like what about you, Leo? Like are you gonna say anything?
cait (43:31)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (43:31)
Yeah.
You know,
Jenna G Judith (43:32)
And it's great.
Lavanya Lakshmi (43:34)
there was a whole storyline where I think it's hinted at that he's got like kind of a not the best relationship with his father. And it's like not something he's thrilled about, but he's also made his piece about. Original drafts had him work some stuff through, but it didn't feel it felt like it was trying to cram his story in at the same time because it's like the wedding actually is a it's a
It's a book that takes place takes place over two weeks, right? So what are the chances
Jenna G Judith (43:59)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (44:00)
that both of them would have like family reconciliation or come to terms with something in their family in this two-week period? And so my editor's actually suggested they were like, what if what if he's kind of past it? Like it's not, it's not the the way he wanted, but like he's kind of like another one of those characters who's worked through a lot of his stuff already. And now he wants to work through how to be with this woman.
Jenna G Judith (44:22)
Mm-hmm.
cait (44:23)
it's so
good. Yeah. You know what else feels revolutionary too, Jenna, is that like normalized starting books where the characters are already dating. Like
Jenna G Judith (44:32)
Tem cara!
cait (44:35)
and they're learning how to be together. You know what I mean? And because that's that did not take away from any of the romance.
I know that they're a new couple, but it's still not like this isn't like a mute cue and like all of the traditional things. And that did not take away from any aspect of yearning or anything like that. There was still all of those great things, but it was like them figuring out this other layer of a relationship.
Jenna G Judith (45:02)
It was so realistic. I'm like,
cait (45:04)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (45:04)
it not everything has to be this grandiose we I met you at a corner and you almost got hit by a car. Like, no, we don't need that.
cait (45:11)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (45:13)
We no, we need the parts where like you're figuring it out.
Lavanya Lakshmi (45:18)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. That was one of my worries because it sort of starts where like one of the hooks when I was pitching this to my agents and to my future agent and editor was like, it starts where a lot of romances end, which is like they've gotten together. and the premise was like, what if these two I say this with odd love in my heart, these two dummies like actually think that they are at their happy ending, but they have so much more, so many more issues to work through, right? Like
cait (45:45)
Like
Lavanya Lakshmi (45:45)
She he's
the best friend's brother. Like they've gone through the romance, but actually the work is like, how do you commit to someone when they're working through their stuff too? and so instead of a will they, won't they, it's like a how do they.
Jenna G Judith (45:59)
Leo needs his he needs a sequel of his own.
cait (46:02)
Yeah. A how do they. Is that is that
Lavanya Lakshmi (46:04)
Yeah.
cait (46:05)
did we just make a new trope? Is there an is there
Jenna G Judith (46:06)
Yeah, we did.
cait (46:07)
can there be a a how do they, literally?
Lavanya Lakshmi (46:07)
I like it, yeah. I
would read a lot of how do they books, I think.
Jenna G Judith (46:12)
I would
too. Yes, let
cait (46:14)
At this point,
yeah, like that's what we're all trying to figure out.
Jenna G Judith (46:17)
And you only you
only get the how do they books when you have multiple sequels.
Lavanya Lakshmi (46:24)
Shit.
Jenna G Judith (46:25)
And I'm like, I don't wanna have
cait (46:26)
that's a good point.
Jenna G Judith (46:26)
to read twelve hundred pages to get to the how do they part. Like, I just wanna read that right away.
cait (46:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (46:35)
Yeah.
cait (46:36)
But it was still it it checked all the boxes. Like there was nothing we can it like it's okay, everyone. It's okay. Yeah. Like it's
Jenna G Judith (46:42)
No nops.
Lavanya Lakshmi (46:43)
Yeah. I borrowed that a
little from like literary fiction and other fiction styles where there's like you know, a lot of times there's like a a romantic interest or romantic partner through a lot of these books. It's not like a romance where you meet someone and that's the arc of it. So like I really like that idea. And and I've read a lot of books where there is like people going through tension in their marriage or in their partnership and stuff, and it and it layers on what's happening. It doesn't always to your point, you know, have to be.
the freshness of like a new romance in that it's not like they haven't committed to each other yet.
Jenna G Judith (47:20)
Yeah.
cait (47:21)
Yeah, exactly.
And I like when we they teach us, right? Like start in the middle of the action, start in the middle of
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:26)
Yeah.
cait (47:27)
something. Start like and that's what we're always trying to do. So yeah, start in the middle of an airport where there are two people already together. Like, why
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:34)
Yes.
cait (47:35)
not? Just like throw us in it into this relationship and let us figure it out. And it
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:39)
Yeah.
cait (47:40)
like it it was totally it was wonderful. It was really refreshing to start there. So
Jenna G Judith (47:45)
And
we got two airport scenes. Like it was like two love actually's.
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:47)
Yes. I love a callback.
cait (47:50)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:50)
That's like my writer thing where I like love
cait (47:53)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (47:54)
something from the end mirroring something from the beginning. I think that that's like always in my books. And so that felt
cait (48:00)
Okay.
Lavanya Lakshmi (48:01)
really fun to get to do the airport scene twice. and have the spoiler alert, I won't say which one, but like one doesn't work the way the other one does. which I really liked too.
Jenna G Judith (48:10)
Right? That was hilarious.
Lavanya Lakshmi (48:13)
I also like it just logically makes sense because if you think about the logic of the story, he is crazy about her, but like unless you're in a committed relationship, you're not gonna go pretend to like, you know, to be a stranger in this wedding and stuff. Like there has to be this sense of like we are trying to make something of this as opposed to we are right at the beginning of this. So that the rest of the things they do in the book make sense, I think. At least to me that that felt clear as day. Like they had to be together.
So that they could pretend to not be together. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (48:42)
Yes Yes
cait (48:43)
Yeah. yeah. It's so
true. And his curiosity is adorable. And his his desire and yearning to want to know who she is and want to know her family is like what makes him attractive. It's like,
Lavanya Lakshmi (48:55)
Yes, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (48:56)
Hmm.
cait (48:56)
this is like a this is a nice thing. Like he he's curious about her. It's like so adorable. yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:03)
Yeah. I think that's that's I
Jenna G Judith (49:03)
Will
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:05)
think a like in a person in a a in a person of the opposite sex or in the person like of a friend who you want to be a friend. Like it's so lovely when people just want to know more about you, you know? So
cait (49:17)
Yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:17)
to me that was like
Jenna G Judith (49:17)
I think that's why I liked
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:18)
the the most attractive thing about him. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (49:21)
I think that's the like the favorite part about this
cait (49:22)
yeah.
Jenna G Judith (49:23)
entire podcast is that like I get to read people's like creative work and then I get to learn more about them of like how they did it. I'm like fascinating
cait (49:32)
It's yeah,
it's the coolest thing. It's on it's the best. And we were so excited to chat with you today about this because
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:38)
Yes.
Jenna G Judith (49:38)
Yes.
cait (49:39)
we enjoyed it so much and we've followed you and we've been dying to talk to you for so long that like thank you for your patience in this very crazy time.
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:49)
No, I'm sorry. Like I'm so thankful that we got to make it work and I and I've
Jenna G Judith (49:54)
Nice.
Lavanya Lakshmi (49:55)
been looking forward to this as well. And thank you so much. I I know that I like was like, hey, I want to read my book, but like and I know that probably doesn't always end up well, but like I'm so I'm so glad it did in this case.
Jenna G Judith (50:01)
Mike, give it give it to me now.
cait (50:05)
Absolutely. No, it was and it was
one that we definitely had on our radar. so it was just it just worked out perfectly. But yeah.
Lavanya Lakshmi (50:13)
This is gonna sound very
thing, but I was just like following your posts. And you know that like a meme that's like, hey, I really liked your vibe from across the bar, like that was me, but on
cait (50:22)
Well
Lavanya Lakshmi (50:22)
the internet to you guys. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (50:25)
We did the same thing for you, or like I literally messaged Cait, like
I sent her one of your posts, I'm like, I want her on the podcast now.
cait (50:32)
I
actually think that's literally how it happened. Like I'm I think she Jenna sent me something and he she was like, This book looks fabulous. Can and I was like, all right, I'll reach out. And I like immediately had already gotten an email or something. Like something went transpired there that
Lavanya Lakshmi (50:46)
Yeah. Kismet.
Jenna G Judith (50:46)
Yeah, like you had already followed us. I'm like, done.
cait (50:50)
was not accidental. Yeah. So it was it was perfect.
Lavanya Lakshmi (50:52)
Yes, amazing.
Jenna G Judith (50:54)
This has been another episode of Margs and Manuscripts. Thanks for listening. Your hosts are Jenna G. Judith, Cait Waynelovich Our writer and public relations manager is Cait Waynelovich. Music by John Waynelovich Editor Jenna G. Judith. Creative direction, Jenna G. Judith. And our podcast manager, Cait Waynelovich Don't forget to like,
follow, subscribe, all that jazz. Visit our website at margsandmanuscripts.com and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
