She Wrote a Sexy Retirement-Home Romance. And Nailed It | Julie Murphy
July 27, 2026
Featured Guests:
Julie Murphy
Julie Murphy is the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Dumplin — adapted into the Netflix film starring Danielle Macdonald and Jennifer Aniston — along with If the Shoe Fits and Student Union. Vera Stein Is Fine is her first full "adult, adult" romance. Known for voice-driven writing that reads like your funniest friend telling you a story, Julie's books pair sharp humor with real emotional weight.
What if the retirement home wasn't the end of the story, but the beginning?
This week, we sit down with #1 New York Times bestselling author Julie Murphy — of Dumplin fame — to talk about Vera Stein Is Fine, her first "adult, adult" solo romance. The idea started with a random fact about David Attenborough starting a retirement home for actors, spiraled into a synopsis Julie sent her agent back in 2016, and spent years becoming the book it needed to be.
Julie joins Jenna and Cait to talk about writing across categories when publishers weren't used to authors jumping between them, what it took to finally finish this book, and the wild, true story of how the Dumplin movie almost didn't happen — until Jennifer Aniston and Dolly Parton stepped in. We also get into why every book is a handmade heirloom of who you were when you wrote it, and why more women need to be talking to each other about their health.
For romance readers, this episode is a look behind one of the summer's most talked-about books — a Palm Springs retirement home full of scandal, second chances, and characters you won't want to leave. For writers, it's an honest conversation about trusting an idea for a decade, writing through the hardest years of your life, and coming out the other side with the book you're most proud of.
In This Episode
The real David Attenborough fact that sparked Vera Stein Is Fine
Why Julie sent the first synopsis to her agent back in 2016
Publishing across categories before it was common to jump between them
What made this her first "adult, adult" solo romance
The full story behind the Dumplin movie almost not happening
How Jennifer Aniston and Dolly Parton both saved the day
Why every book feels like a handmade heirloom of a specific version of yourself\
The reader review that became this book's unofficial tagline
Why Julie thinks women need to talk to each other more about their health
The line from the book everyone's already quoting
Vera Stein is Fine
Julie Murphy
Vera Stein is forty, stuck in a dead-end job, and pretty sure her big life has already passed her by — until a visit to her grandmother's retirement community in Palm Springs turns into a fresh start she never saw coming. Funny, tender, and full of scandalous seniors, this is a story about second chances at every age.
-
Jenna G Judith (00:00)
wanna be Julie's friend so bad.
cait (00:01)
Ugh I'm just gonna come out and say it.
Jenna G Judith (00:05)
Okay, like is it is it weird? Am I allowed to fangirl? Like she's probably one of the most famous people like I've talked to. because she's like written so many incredible things and she's had movies made on Netflix
cait (00:20)
And she's so fucking good. Not only that, but it she is famous in a way that she means a lot to a lot of people.
Jenna G Judith (00:28)
Mm-hmm.
cait (00:28)
You know, she's had this like impact.
Jenna G Judith (00:31)
Mm-hmm.
cait (00:31)
and I don't know if I've really if we've like really spent a lot of time with somebody that has had such an impact on like their fan base and people and like read their book and they're like, This like helped me or like this changed me or all like all of it.
Jenna G Judith (00:46)
I don't even know what the theme of this episode is. I just have like so many questions and so many like highlighted things in my like copy of it and I'm just I was like almost in tears talking to Cody about like some of like her lines that she had in her book and I'm like I felt so seen and it was so incredible and it wasn't like gimmicky. It was it was genuine.
talent mixed with just refreshing perspective.
cait (01:18)
I'm going into this. And I was like, we're recording this before we're actually talking to her. I'm going into this though, like pretty much picturing her as Vera Stein. I don't also know, I don't think I've ever done that with a guest either. Like, I literally am just assuming that this is exactly how she's gonna be, because I feel like she just like she wrote the entire thing. In my head, she wrote it exactly like how she talks.
Jenna G Judith (01:40)
Which is fucking hilarious and that's why I wanna be her best friend. Cause I'm like, this girl's hilarious and I love her and be. She's here
cait (01:53)
We were fangirling just sorry.
Julie Murphy (01:57)
no, that's so cute and so sweet, thank you.
cait (02:00)
my god, hi, I love you. Sorry.
Jenna G Judith (02:00)
You're actually here? Hi, I love you too.
Julie Murphy (02:01)
Hi. Love you
guys too.
cait (02:04)
I'm gonna make it weird right off the bat. Yeah, I did it. I did it.
Julie Murphy (02:07)
No, please zero. I'm I'm always I'm always making it weird.
Jenna G Judith (02:07)
Yep, check in that box.
cait (02:11)
we
were just doing what's probably just gonna be your intro, even though it was just us chatting, but we were
Julie Murphy (02:17)
Perfect.
Jenna G Judith (02:18)
Don't care.
cait (02:18)
saying out loud our thoughts
Julie Murphy (02:21)
Mm-hmm.
cait (02:22)
of how much we want to be your best friend and that this is our formal invitation, application. What is it? What's the what are the kids saying? Application. This is our formal application. God
Jenna G Judith (02:30)
This is our yeah. A app application. Yes.
Julie Murphy (02:34)
Yeah, perfect. Application accepted.
Jenna G Judith (02:39)
Yes.
my god, just stop. Just how? Where do we even start? Because you have like like
cait (02:46)
W I don't know where to start. I don't freaking know.
Jenna G Judith (02:49)
you have a repertoire like a a catalogue of books that you have written that is amazing. They've been made into Netflix movies. They've been like you have written with your best friend, you've done all these things. But this th is this one like your very first like solo adult fiction romance?
Julie Murphy (03:08)
So that's what we're calling it kind of.
Jenna G Judith (03:10)
Okay.
Julie Murphy (03:11)
So yeah, so are we recording? Are we ready to go? I can start I can talk start s like
Jenna G Judith (03:14)
yeah, we're recording. You're good. Yep. Yeah.
Julie Murphy (03:17)
really, really talking. so if the shoe fits, which came out a few years ago, is an adult book I did with Disney. and actually when I signed on to do that book, it's a like rom com retelling of Cinderella. And they've got like a whole series of like these adult rom-com books. There's like Christina Lauren did one.
Jasmine Gillary. Like there's a there's several authors that have done them. But anyways, when I signed on to do that one, we actually didn't know what category that book was gonna be. They were like, We don't know if it's gonna be YA, we don't know if it's gonna be adult, but we want you to do this. And I was like, Okay. And so I kind of fell into that book. but
And I had a new adult book come out in May called Student Union, which is definitely closer to adult, but still like, you know, we're in college. We're we don't know how to call the doctor for a doctor's appointment. I still don't know how to do that sometimes. so this I really feel like is my first like adult, adult big girl solo book.
Jenna G Judith (04:16)
W so was it like a long time coming? Were you like itching to do it, or you're like, I'm I think I'm ready now?
Julie Murphy (04:22)
Okay, so what's funny about this book is I actually started working on this book before any of that, like before if the shoe fits. Like I'm normally not a person who works on a book for years and years and years. Like if it doesn't click, it doesn't click. Like I don't like to hold on to projects and try to make them work kind of like Vera does with her screenplay for 20 years. Like it's just like I don't I don't have the heart for that. Like I don't have like maybe it's enough faith in myself or whatever it is. Like I just can't do it.
but I emailed my agent John about this book about Vera Stein in like 2016 or something like that. And I had been talking to Sierra one day. She was like, Did you know that David Attenborough started a retirement home for actors in the UK a long time ago? And I was like, What? Like, that's crazy. What if it's in Palm Springs and they were all horny?
then the idea just like like a a version of Vera Stein came to me like pretty immediately and I wrote a whole synopsis for it and sent it to my agent. It's changed quite a bit since then.
But I was like, hey, I know that we literally just had like the Dumplin movie come out and like all this other stuff, but like I really want to try to make this leap into adult books. And at this time it was kind of like not taboo, but like publishers were a lot less interested in seeing you jump categories. Like even doing like a young adult book and then moving into middle grade was considered like, wow, this is kind of a big deal. and here I am little
Literally just all over the place now. Like just essentially like me with a breeding kink in like publishing categories just doing it all.
cait (06:14)
I love it. It's like it's a diversified portfolio though. Like, I don't
Jenna G Judith (06:18)
Yes.
cait (06:18)
know, there's something for everybody. And your
Julie Murphy (06:20)
Yeah.
cait (06:21)
writing, it just feels so how do you cause as as a writer, we're both writers, but my biggest or in the last book I wrote, at least I I tried so hard to make it sound like I was talking. Like I just wanted
Julie Murphy (06:35)
Yeah.
cait (06:35)
the voice
Jenna G Judith (06:35)
Right.
cait (06:36)
to be like literally me talking, and I did so many things to make that.
try to be possible or at least close to it and you just fucking nail it so hard. And that's what
Julie Murphy (06:48)
Thanks. Thank you.
cait (06:49)
I said to Jonathan before we started. I was like, I was like, I'm just assuming that she's Vera because it sounds so voicey.
Julie Murphy (06:54)
Ha
cait (06:55)
And it I was like, I'm assuming this is just how she talks. And if it is, we I want to be her best friend. Because like it was it felt so natural. It felt so natural
Jenna G Judith (07:01)
Yep. Yep. Like what w
cait (07:05)
to read.
Jenna G Judith (07:06)
I want to be
on a pink flamingo floaty with you in Palm Springs. So bad. Yes.
cait (07:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Murphy (07:10)
Yeah, let's do it. I would love that.
I think that like my god, I keep telling my publisher, no one's ever gonna let me do this. I was like, what if we just have like a giant pool party in like the middle of the winter in Palm Springs and just like invite readers to go and hang out? I was like, wouldn't that be amazing? Let's do it, right? Let's do it. I know. Okay, if it if it happens, y'all
cait (07:34)
Absolutely.
Julie Murphy (07:35)
will be the first to know.
Jenna G Judith (07:36)
I will
sprint to the airport. I
Julie Murphy (07:39)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (07:40)
will shove the
cait (07:40)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (07:41)
children at the husband and be like, Deal with it, I'm going.
Julie Murphy (07:44)
Well, flamingo floaty on me, you know? but yeah, I think that I never had like any sort of formal writing education and I think that
If I had it would have stressed me out too much and I would be trying too hard to be something in particular. but I of course I want like every book of mine to feel distinct, but I still want it to feel like a Julie Murphy book. So there are things that I know about a character going into a book that like change the way I like talk from first person and things like that. I mean, having a theater background might help, but like really it's just like
Like, I want my books to read like you're like hanging out with a friend and they're telling you a story. Like that's just I want it like Sierra and I say this about our books too. Like we just want it to feel like you're at a slumber party and your friend is like, listen to this shit that happened to me, you
Jenna G Judith (08:39)
It did that and then some and it
cait (08:41)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (08:41)
transported me into a retirement community that I didn't know I wanted to be at.
Julie Murphy (08:47)
I know, I you know, I always used to think of retirement communities as like this sad, depressing thing. But like as I've gotten older and like I've had like the older people in my life get older and I've seen them move into like more senior living type of places and I visit them or I help them move in. I'm like, this is baller. Like I want this. You have a great pool. You guys have craft night.
You guys are vicious about your Bunko games? Like I want this. This sounds great.
Jenna G Judith (09:18)
Like everything you wish you could do as an adult.
Julie Murphy (09:21)
Yeah, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (09:22)
But there's you know there's medications and doctors involved and fall risks. So
Julie Murphy (09:27)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
cait (09:27)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (09:29)
That all that is true.
cait (09:31)
Can I just say that like, okay, I'm gonna full disclosure, old people scare me. I have no like No, I have like Yeah, no,
Julie Murphy (09:37)
Tell me, tell me more about this. Is it 'cause like you're scared of becoming old?
Jenna G Judith (09:39)
I did not know this about you, Cait
cait (09:41)
I don't I'm I like don't do well with old p I don't know why. I think it's like a childhood thing. My mom was like a like a in home nurse. So like she would take me
to work with her and we were like going to like these old people's homes. But I also come from like a super young family because my parents were like seventeen and eighteen when I was born. So
Julie Murphy (09:55)
Yeah, yeah.
cait (09:56)
my grandmother,
She just died recently, but she was only like seventy seven.
Julie Murphy (10:02)
wow, yeah.
cait (10:03)
And I'm almost forty. So like super y so I've never really dealt with old people, but so this for me was like old people rock. I would hang out with them. They're not just I like
Julie Murphy (10:13)
Yeah. I
cait (10:15)
went into this like fear that I have of getting old and older. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (10:18)
I had no idea!
I learned something new.
Julie Murphy (10:20)
That's wild.
But I get it. I do. Like, I think that so I was the youngest in or well, the second to youngest in my like extended family. I'm originally from Connecticut and when I grew up in Connecticut it was a lot of like, you know, you get out of school and a random family member picks you up from school 'cause mom is working or, you
cait (10:41)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Murphy (10:41)
know, dad was in jail at the time. You know what I mean? Like whatever it is. Surprise.
cait (10:45)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (10:48)
Yeah. So like it could be anything. And so I always think I gravitated towards older people. Like even when I would do like summer camps or school, like I was always like the teacher's friend. Like I would always make like snide remarks about the other kids to like the adults in the
Jenna G Judith (11:03)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (11:04)
room and they would think it was the best. And so I think that like I've just always gravitated towards older people and then over the last few years my life changed significantly and I became a caretaker for my dad.
For quite a while. And that just really changed how I thought about like aging and like I used to just be like, well, just turn me out to pasture when this happens in my life. And you don't realize, like, you still continue to live, you know what I mean? And so, like, that point at which you think it's no longer worth living when you're 25 and able-bodied is not actually.
a real thing. Like you you just like life changes slowly over time and your body changes slowly over time or sometimes in an instant and you just adapt. so yeah, I think that you know, being the person who wipes your dad's ass just turns into a just just really changes your your perspective on aging, you know?
cait (12:04)
That'll do it. That'll do it.
Jenna G Judith (12:07)
I
cait (12:07)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (12:07)
I'm gonna
bring that one back to my dad and see how he feels about it.
Julie Murphy (12:09)
Yeah. Yeah.
cait (12:11)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (12:13)
Okay, I my dad actually my dad passed away last month.
cait (12:17)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (12:18)
and that sucks. But I have to tell you the funniest story, my the funniest caretaking story I have with my dad. We've already talked about poop earlier before. I don't even know
Jenna G Judith (12:27)
Yeah, we're good.
Julie Murphy (12:28)
if we were like talking yet, but like recording.
Jenna G Judith (12:31)
Colostomy bag
maybe? damn.
Julie Murphy (12:32)
But yeah, no, not colosnibag, but he he
cait (12:35)
Good for him.
Julie Murphy (12:37)
had just gotten home from like a nine-month stint in the hospital. And he was at home and he was like, you know, I need some help in the bathroom, and I went to help him, and he just like had his like thing of wet wipes next to him, and so I went and helped him in the bathroom and he's like standing up and leaning on the sink and I gave him a good wipe and there was a shriek coming from my father that I have never heard.
heard in my life and I was like what's wrong what's wrong he was like it just it just kind of stung a little bit more than I expected and I was like okay and I peeked around at like what was on the counter and I was like dad you handed me the Clorox bleach wipes not the actual wet wipes so I just bleached I just bleached your asshole
cait (13:23)
Dad.
Jenna G Judith (13:24)
You bleached his asshole.
Julie Murphy (13:27)
so people pay money for that
cait (13:29)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (13:31)
yeah
Jenna G Judith (13:31)
You got
it for free.
cait (13:32)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (13:33)
Yeah, got it for free.
So anyways, yeah. Bodies are funny and weird. But I get it. Like I I I have definitely there have been definitely been like certain people, certain like types of people in my life that I was not raised around that like were actually very scary to me at times as a child. It's very weird and bizarre, but
Jenna G Judith (13:51)
Isn't it?
Julie Murphy (13:52)
it makes sense when you're a kid.
cait (13:54)
on that side of things, like we're technically we will be older parents, but Ruby just gave me so much fucking hope for my future. And like her story was
Jenna G Judith (14:01)
Ruby. Fucking
Julie Murphy (14:02)
Yeah. Yeah, good. I'm glad.
cait (14:05)
like but all of that, I I loved the romance. I love the main character that was 40, like, thank you, hello, and
But like it was honestly the old people that I that were the biggest takeaways for me. Yeah. Fucking colorful.
Jenna G Judith (14:19)
It was a colorful cast of characters.
Julie Murphy (14:21)
Yeah, yeah.
cait (14:23)
Can you like every friggin' person was just so real and so wonderful?
Jenna G Judith (14:28)
If you were to use obviously you've written a lot of books, you've done a lot of things. How would you describe this book in terms of your lineup in superlatives? Because Lauren Oakie, she always told us in like one of our previous episodes, she's like, I never want to compare this book to other books. I just want to say like this book is my
most character driven. This book was the hardest for me to write. This book was the most fun for me to write. Like what would your superlatives be if your you had to put your book in a yearbook of all of your other books?
Julie Murphy (15:02)
man, in a yearbook of all my other books.
This book would be the book that like got held back like three years in a row and like barely graduated, but when they did, like they like really stepped into their own. So like let's go with like late bloomer. That's
Jenna G Judith (15:23)
Late bloomer.
Julie Murphy (15:26)
a good one. most likely to bloom late.
cait (15:30)
That's trooper right there. That is I don't know, that to me says like that book got through some shit
Julie Murphy (15:35)
Yeah, yeah.
cait (15:36)
and it forced its way in.
Julie Murphy (15:38)
Yeah.
I mean again,
every time I would go back to it, I it was like, I was a totally different person when I wrote this these last few chapters. Like, I don't even relate to that person anymore. so like I had grown I just become so many different versions of myself over the course of writing this book, but I think it just had to happen that way.
My awesome social media person Flavia saw this review that she's been using in like promo stuff that said something like, this book will do for forty-year-old women what Dumplin did for like fifteen year old girls.
cait (16:16)
that's so good.
Julie Murphy (16:17)
And that's really what the process of writing that book felt like. You know what I mean? That's like it felt like Dumplin like to heal my like inner child, like the the sixteen-year-old girl who was just like
you know, the fat girl trying to like just navigate high school. And this one is really like this one is forty year old me. Like if you if anyone out there is like, I wanna know Julie Murphy as her truest self right now in this moment, read this book. Like this is just like this is the closest to me I've been on paper in a long, long time. So
cait (16:52)
That comes through
so much. Like how you are able to to do that is is awesome. I'm fa I I need to know about your experience with dumpling too. Like while you're here and just like how
Jenna G Judith (17:06)
Please.
cait (17:07)
that that all went down and what that was like and I need to know all of
Julie Murphy (17:12)
Yeah.
cait (17:13)
it.
Julie Murphy (17:14)
So the the short long version of it is that like
Dumplin was a book that was just bought for like a normal amount of money and was not supposed to be like this big breakout book. Like people were like, you know, it was gonna get like a medium amount, like a normal amount of like in-house support at a publisher. And then people just started reading it like in-house at the publisher and getting really into it. And then it was the kind of thing where like a bookseller would read it and then call like the rep at the publisher and be like, Have you did like did you ever actually read this book yet? Like I really love it. And so it was really just like
grassroots support from the very beginning. and then a few months before the book came out, we sold the film rights to Disney.
And that was like colossal and crazy and huge. And then Disney sat on the film rights for a while, but they ended up hiring the screenwriter and the producer. And the screenwriter had started working on the project. And then Disney, which is such a Disney thing, 'cause they've done it to me more than once. was like, you know, I think we're gonna we're gonna concentrate on like adapting our own IP. So like turning Aladdin into a live action movie or like things like that, which
cait (18:28)
Right. Wow.
Jenna G Judith (18:30)
Not necessary,
by the way.
Julie Murphy (18:31)
It well,
you it it I can't say that it doesn't make them money. So I get it. Mickey Mouse has to put a meal on his table too, you know? but anyways, all the people that they hired on stayed on the project. And then when I I got the call from my film agent that Disney was cutting us loose and she was like, Don't go anywhere, you're about to get another phone call
Like, just sit tight. Literally in ten minutes you're gonna get another phone call. And I got another phone call from the producer and the screenwriter. And the screenwriter was like, Hey P. S. Jennifer Aniston is my best friend. We lived on the same street with like, you know,
all these like nineties comedy legends when we all first moved to LA and we all became best friends and she wants to star in this movie and we still want to make this movie. So we tried lots of different things. We tried selling it to other studios. we ended up making it independently with like a like a like an outside financier. And then once it was made, or once it was like on the road to becoming made, we got Dolly Parton on board, which was like
Jenna G Judith (19:42)
Mm butt
Julie Murphy (19:42)
really locked
in the financing for it, you know what I mean? Which crazy. But that was like the final linchpin. And so then we had enough money to make the movie. We made it independently. I would do like set visits and like the crew would come up to me and be like, movies don't always feel like this. Like
We want you to know like this set feels like family and it doesn't always feel like this. And so if you have this experience again, just know that this one was special and it might not be like this again. And I was like, my god. and so we made the movie. you know, it took a little while, but it sold to Netflix, and once it sold to Netflix, it released in like two and a half months.
So it was like a crazy whirlwind experience. yeah,
cait (20:32)
What?
Julie Murphy (20:33)
yeah. So it's one of I mean it's I think it's a great example of like how you can get like a door slammed in your face multiple times and you know, things can still happen. So that was definitely a movie that was like not supposed to ever get made and it got made, which was like just a miracle on all accounts.
Jenna G Judith (20:53)
Isn't that funny how
that is a movie that should never have been made. Did
Julie Murphy (20:57)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (20:58)
and killed it. And now this is like a book that you said just shouldn't have survived this li
Julie Murphy (21:04)
Yeah.
I mean it's true though. Like it's just and I think it's like I just kept coming back to Vera. I don't know why, and I'm so glad I did, but like, like I had a little run in with cancer like what two years ago now. And Vera was supposed to come out like a long time ago. but
All these things happened. I became a caretaker. I got endometrial cancer and like I was trying to like finish this book while I was like in the midst of like having hysterectomy. just before I found out I had to have this hysterectomy, we'd bought a house in like another state and we were doing like this huge move in the middle of all this and like recovering from that. It was just like absolutely crazy. And like this is so much information. I'm so sorry.
But
cait (21:59)
No, I'm like this is kinda eerie
Jenna G Judith (21:59)
No, no, no, we're best friends, remember?
cait (22:02)
actually. This is like
so Yeah,
Julie Murphy (22:04)
Yeah.
cait (22:05)
so so
Jenna G Judith (22:06)
Yeah.
cait (22:06)
keep going. I'm like freak, yeah.
Julie Murphy (22:07)
Okay, okay you we
we got we got a cancer unload on each other, but
cait (22:11)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (22:11)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (22:11)
I had this hysterectomy and they were like, it's just gonna be like a regular hysterectomy, like we're just gonna go out and take out what we need to. And the surgery ended up being like hours and hours long. My husband came down with COVID the day before. He couldn't be at the hospital. I was there by myself. Like it was just crazy. And they were doing like a laparoscopic procedure, and they ended up going in and having to do a cesarean because there was so much cancer, and they had to take everything out. So it's what was called a radical hysterectomy, and it sent
into like immediate menopause.
cait (22:44)
Yeah, man.
Julie Murphy (22:45)
and that also completely changed how I thought about bodies and aging. And like like I'm like within a week I was like I noticed a difference in myself and like like my mental state like just literally how I responded to the temperature in a room like everything. So yeah
cait (23:05)
Hot.
Julie Murphy (23:06)
that was like
That was a moment when I was like, I c I think I should put down this book. I think I should just scratch it and try writing something else. Like I don't feel good about this. but I just kept going. And so I think finally last summer, Vera Stein was finally finished and we could release it this summer. So
cait (23:27)
My gosh.
Julie Murphy (23:28)
the the book really went through it with me.
cait (23:31)
It's here
like that's what it that's it's like a weird universe thing. Like in Yes. Can cheers to you, man. Cheers to you. Cause like this is a big fucking week. This is like
Jenna G Judith (23:38)
Cheers to you my
Julie Murphy (23:39)
And it tears you
cait (23:45)
this feels, yeah, like such a it has to feel like such a celebration at this point, even compared to your other bo I know you've been through this a lot, but like that has to feel
Julie Murphy (23:53)
Yeah, yeah.
cait (23:54)
like this is a big week.
Julie Murphy (23:56)
Yeah, Student Union that came out in May and then this book were like really with me through some tough times. And so both
cait (24:02)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (24:02)
of them feel like such personal accomplishments, just the fact that they exist. So that's really how I feel. I mean, I know that like it was really hard losing my dad last month. I was actually on a train or like I was like in the middle of like the Canadian wilderness with my friends, like on a trip. And so I had no cell service.
Jenna G Judith (24:22)
no!
Julie Murphy (24:23)
It was really
cait (24:23)
wow.
Julie Murphy (24:24)
like crazy. It was one of the most beautiful days I've ever witnessed in my life, though. Like I'll never forget like how beautiful the sunset was that day and all these things. And I just remember thinking, like, is this like the full circle on like my experience with this book? Because like, you know, at the beginning Vera loses her mother and like it was just
cait (24:44)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (24:45)
kind of like
I just feel like with this like final experience before this book comes out, like the way I can talk about this book is so different than I could have talked about it when I first started writing it in twenty sixteen, you know?
Jenna G Judith (24:58)
So
true and even
cait (24:59)
It's heard.
Jenna G Judith (25:00)
chapter to chapter, like going back and editing things, you're a different person. Like
Julie Murphy (25:04)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (25:04)
y you've had a lot of shit thrown at you. So really
Julie Murphy (25:07)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (25:08)
like you ha you have experienced so many different things and it shows I think in Vera's like tenacity through all of it and her like full arc and really every character like has a beautiful arc in it, but it's it's this moment where you find one thing that you relate
to about like any of the characters and they instantly like become part of you and it it's just it rarely happens when you have that many characters. Like
Julie Murphy (25:37)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (25:38)
sometimes they just feel like pieces of furniture that needed to be there to build out the room a little.
Julie Murphy (25:44)
Yeah, yeah, I get it.
Jenna G Judith (25:46)
But
cait (25:46)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (25:46)
this was so tangible of like I Iden like I identify with an eighty year old man. And like I will have a planner when I die. And
Julie Murphy (25:55)
I love him. Yeah.
cait (25:56)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (25:59)
You know, like how can you not just how much heart was in it and I'm gonna pour myself more wine now because my god
cait (26:03)
Wait, but like I know, I need to take my shirt off. I
Julie Murphy (26:08)
That's it.
cait (26:09)
I cannot fucking believe that you were not a caretaker before and you wrote all of this about being a caretaker and then you literally became a caretaker when this book
Julie Murphy (26:20)
Yeah.
cait (26:20)
is bec like Jenna, what kind of shit is that? Are we like are we manifesting? Are
Jenna G Judith (26:26)
This is some woo-woo shit.
Julie Murphy (26:26)
IO.
cait (26:28)
we I'm a little woo-woo woo at the moment because of
Jenna G Judith (26:30)
Yeah, you are.
cait (26:31)
a lot of stuff, but like
Yeah, I think that's so incredible and such like a it's woo woo, but the universe
Julie Murphy (26:38)
Yeah.
cait (26:39)
is it's working.
Julie Murphy (26:41)
Man, it's it's something for sure. I've never had an experience like writing this book. I don't know that I ever will again. I I kinda hope that I don't.
cait (26:49)
No, that's like yeah.
Julie Murphy (26:51)
Yeah, but like I just
Jenna G Judith (26:51)
You don't need it.
Julie Murphy (26:53)
like, you know, I don't know.
I'm j I've just been trying to be grateful for every single one of these moments because all these really hard things happened and not everyone has the outlet that I did to express these things. and to like exercise
Jenna G Judith (27:10)
That's why we're writers.
Julie Murphy (27:12)
those demons in such like a a validating way. So I'm just trying to like breathe through this experience and hold on to it all, you know? So
cait (27:23)
And like allow yourself
to celebrate it because it it
Julie Murphy (27:25)
Yeah, yeah.
cait (27:26)
probably
Jenna G Judith (27:26)
Yeah.
cait (27:26)
feels like I definitely I a s I'm not gonna make it about me, but I've had a very similar experience with my book launched last month. Like, yeah, I I I had been writing the book for ten years. It was like my MFA thesis ten years ago.
Julie Murphy (27:33)
Yeah, yeah. man. Please make
it all about you. I wanna hear all about this. Tell me everything.
Jenna G Judith (27:42)
Yeah
cait (27:42)
No, it's just weird 'cause I'm like, d why what? no and it was it
Jenna G Judith (27:47)
Yeah.
cait (27:48)
was me that says it was ten years. Wha w what were you gonna say?
Julie Murphy (27:52)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (27:53)
I was
gonna say I love hearing about Kate's life because it's so much more interesting than mine.
cait (27:58)
No,
it's not even that. It's just that this has like even just talking to you about and hearing your story like makes me feel like less insane because yeah, it was ten years.
Jenna G Judith (28:08)
Because then a week before
cait (28:10)
A week before my grandmother dies while I'm at her house unexpectedly, while I'm at her house, like
Julie Murphy (28:16)
my god.
cait (28:17)
the last conversation is her like reading her name in the acknowledgments of my book and like having this like wonderful, like cathartic,
like
She was just like, I'm just so like excited for this. And she was like so pumped. And she didn't know that she was in the acknowledgement. So
Julie Murphy (28:32)
my god.
cait (28:32)
like she got really emotional seeing her name. Literally, she died that night. I unexpectedly. Like totally bizarre.
Julie Murphy (28:40)
That's wild.
cait (28:42)
Weird. And so my book came out four days later, three days something like that. Like you were
Jenna G Judith (28:45)
Four days. Yeah. 'Cause
cait (28:48)
flying in like two days later. It was just so
Julie Murphy (28:50)
Yeah.
cait (28:50)
yeah, like ten years of writing this didn't leave my my brain to the point where I'm writing about experiences ten years ago. And my husband is like, I really don't want to read about like whatever you were going through ten years ago when like we weren't together and like you're writing
Julie Murphy (29:04)
Yeah.
cait (29:05)
about this like affair you had in France and whatever. It's it's fine, it's fine. He he does
Julie Murphy (29:08)
Yeah.
cait (29:09)
it. But yeah, she that like
Jenna G Judith (29:10)
It was not an affair, no one was
cait (29:12)
But the
Jenna G Judith (29:11)
married.
cait (29:13)
three like three nights before and it was so weird. Then we moved
Jenna G Judith (29:18)
And then
cait (29:19)
we bought a house and we moved the same time, the same month. It was the book coming
Julie Murphy (29:21)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
cait (29:24)
out. Bought a house, moved here. and I just had surgery five days ago, so seven days ago, so like
Julie Murphy (29:31)
my god.
Jenna G Judith (29:32)
Your appendix left the station.
cait (29:34)
I randomly.
Julie Murphy (29:34)
Yeah.
cait (29:35)
The same month, like, so
Julie Murphy (29:37)
Yeah.
cait (29:38)
I've been feeling very all over the fucking place mentally. And so
Julie Murphy (29:42)
Yeah.
cait (29:42)
like, not to say like thank you for also going through really hard things, but like it's just made me feel insane. And so
Julie Murphy (29:48)
Yeah.
cait (29:49)
anyway, I didn't feel like I could celebrate the book. I felt like just I was in all these different places at once. And I really wanted to be excited. And so
Yeah. So I'm just like, okay, I'm not in th anyway, thank you.
Julie Murphy (30:05)
No, you're not in this alone.
And like what's crazy is that like was this your first book, by the way? Congratulations. That's huge. You should be celebrating this. Just so
cait (30:12)
Yeah. Thank you. First one.
Julie Murphy (30:18)
you know, it's like like burks books are like birthday months. Like you get to celebrate the first one for the full year. So you got a full year
Jenna G Judith (30:24)
Ha ha ha!
Julie Murphy (30:25)
of celebrations. You know what mean? but yeah, I think that like
All of these things happen to everybody else. Do you know what I mean? Like all these things
cait (30:34)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (30:35)
are happening to everybody else. Like life happens in clusters, you know, at least according to me. I made that up. I don't know if that's true, but to me it's true that life happens in clusters. And I think it feels so much more like so much heavier for writers, especially because our
when you become a professional writer and like you're actually publishing books, like your career is so accomplish-based and so like like anniversary based. Do you know what I mean? And so like it's impossible to not associate each book with all of the things happening in your life as they're happening. And so like like my my life will always be like tied to like all the like I had a
Like when my middle grade books came out while I was having my hysterectomy and it was the the day I had to put on clothes to go take a picture of myself in that book, was like the first day I had gotten dressed in like weeks. Yeah, like it was the first day that would
cait (31:34)
Yes. I was just on TV
the other day and it was the first day I got dressed. Sorry.
Julie Murphy (31:39)
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like I like had I like the first
day I'd gotten dressed, the first day I'd like washed my hair since the surgery.
cait (31:46)
Yes.
Julie Murphy (31:47)
And it was to put a picture of myself on the internet smiling with a book that like I literally could not even tell you what it was about at the time. I was like, Hi, I'm so sorry I had to cancel an entire book tour for this. here I am.
I don't know, it's just it's really hard to like divorce your real life from your creative life when you have these books coming out because they're so personal even when they're not, you know?
cait (32:12)
Yeah, yeah.
That's so fascinating.
Jenna G Judith (32:14)
Like I don't care if
you're crank cranking out like twenty books a year. I
Julie Murphy (32:18)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (32:19)
they're each like handmade little heirlooms of yourself. And
Julie Murphy (32:24)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (32:25)
there's some there's something to that of when you pour yourself into something else, shit behind you just never stops.
Julie Murphy (32:34)
No.
cait (32:34)
Yeah. Can I just say though, we've had two friends recently get hysterectomies and we need to talk about them more. I'm just finding though like we
Julie Murphy (32:43)
Yeah. my God.
cait (32:45)
need to talk about them more. Why aren't women like being super open about when this happens? Because like we literally connected the two of them and we were like, you guys should chat and they it was like, Why aren't people talking about this?
Julie Murphy (32:56)
Yeah.
No, I know. Like you have to like it's like you gotta go to like a speakeasy on Reddit to find
cait (33:02)
Haha.
Julie Murphy (33:02)
out any information about like literally anything health oriented for women. It drives me bananas.
cait (33:08)
My gosh.
Julie Murphy (33:09)
Yeah, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (33:10)
my god,
I I could go on a rand.
cait (33:11)
Like I can't imag yeah.
Julie Murphy (33:13)
Yeah.
I honestly if I hadn't like connected with other friends that had also had hysterectomies, but like at the same time, like I when I had endometrial cancer, like once I was in the clear, immediately two or three people I knew also had some sort of like reproductive cancer come up. So it's like we just have to like be talking to each other about this. Like it's just also go get your coochie looked at. No matter who you are.
Jenna G Judith (33:38)
Please
Julie Murphy (33:39)
No matter what age you are, go get
cait (33:41)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (33:41)
your coochie looked at, go get your titties looked at, go get it all looked at.
cait (33:46)
This is a ma like I love this 'cause I was going to ask how much of Vera like was real events. And so it's fascinating
Jenna G Judith (33:53)
Yes.
cait (33:55)
to hear that like you know, maybe a lot of it wasn't, but like it's kind of coming to like the the caretaking
Julie Murphy (34:03)
Yeah.
cait (34:03)
thing, but also I feel like maybe you weren't an events planner at a retirement home.
Julie Murphy (34:10)
No, I wasn't an events
planner at a retirement home, but I am a former librarian and I
cait (34:15)
It's pretty daller.
Julie Murphy (34:17)
did all the programming for teenagers at my library that I was at. And
Jenna G Judith (34:22)
Which is essentially just like little old people.
Julie Murphy (34:24)
it's little old people basically,
cait (34:25)
Ha ha ha.
Julie Murphy (34:26)
yeah. Except they like anime, you know? so I did do that. but yeah.
My library was like a rural a rural that's the worst word of all time. Like a small town library. And so we actually got hit with a tornado once that like took out the whole town. And our library became like the Red Cross headquarters. And so like it was like the crady craziest, like changing hats moment where I was like, I didn't sign up for this. Like I'm not good. And like a moment of panic. Please don't ask me a question. Like
Jenna G Judith (35:01)
You
became the emergency response person.
Julie Murphy (35:04)
Yeah,
cait (35:04)
Huh. my god.
Julie Murphy (35:04)
yeah. Like I'm like
I can literally show you how to look up like your family's genealogy, but like if you need to know like, you know, where to go for like medical assistance, I'm so sorry.
Jenna G Judith (35:18)
Like go ask the people with the red vests and the big white crosses.
cait (35:22)
my
Julie Murphy (35:22)
Yeah,
cait (35:22)
gosh, I can yes. That is so good.
Julie Murphy (35:22)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
cait (35:27)
Jennifer Aniston.
Julie Murphy (35:30)
Wild, right?
cait (35:31)
Is she the fucking bet? I just have to know before I like am like let's wrap I I need to know about Jennifer Aniston.
Jenna G Judith (35:37)
Please, her and Dolly Parton, please.
cait (35:39)
All of it.
Julie Murphy (35:39)
Yeah.
Honestly, pissed me off with how nice she is. Like you
cait (35:43)
God damn it.
Jenna G Judith (35:43)
Fuck.
Julie Murphy (35:46)
I don't know. It's cre it's wild to me that you could be in Hollywood for that long and still be that nice. Especially with like how absolutely like vitriolic people have been to her, like in the media. like whether it's about like
her and not having kids, her breaking up with people or her you know what I mean? Like it's just
cait (36:06)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (36:07)
wild to me. but yeah, our last night of filming
Jen had wrapped like a few days earlier, I think. And our last night of filming, she sent a food truck to like we were a poor set, okay? Like we weren't we weren't getting a lot of fancy stuff. We were an indie movie, technically. And she sent us a food truck that only served milk and cookies, and they stayed all night and like just fed us milk milk and cookies all night. so like just a good, sweet, kind person. And honestly, like
She didn't have to do this movie. Like, this movie got made because she decided to do it. And so she'll always be like the guardian angel of Dunblin. Like she just we wouldn't have we wouldn't have this movie if we didn't have her. Cause when you go and pitch this to like independent like financiers, like they look at who is in your movie and they sign a dollar amount to that person's name and decide how much money the production of the movie is worth based on who is in the movie.
And without Jen, like they we would have been like, you you can have forty dollars to make this movie. So yeah. Good luck to you. Go film Dumplin
Jenna G Judith (37:18)
Here's a video camcorder from the nineties.
cait (37:18)
Wow. Yes.
Julie Murphy (37:24)
Backrooms. Yeah. and then I mean Dolly, like I just like there's not a bad thing you can say about her. I did this interview with Dolly Parton for
CMT like country music television and they we were in this like like pool house at the back of this house in Hollywood. They had turned all the air off because they were recording. It was so hot and sweaty. And Dolly Parton does all of her own makeup. She doesn't have a makeup artist, at least one that like travels with her regularly, like maybe for like special photo shoots or something she does. She does all
Jenna G Judith (38:02)
I didn't know this.
Julie Murphy (38:03)
of her own makeup and I'm just like slowly glistening next to her and she's
like we're let's she's like let's take a break and she calls over her lovely like I like I couldn't even say this man is an as assistant. He is like the the spinal cord of her daily operation. You know what I mean? Like he's keeping things together. He's carrying around like a like a Louis Vuitton bag full of like makeup and hair extensions. Like this man is amazing.
Jenna G Judith (38:32)
he's the dude from VEEP!
Julie Murphy (38:34)
Yeah. He's a bag man. Yeah. Yeah he's he is the bag man
cait (38:34)
That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah. Yeah. He's the Bacman.
Jenna G Judith (38:37)
He's the bag man.
cait (38:38)
What a character. Yeah.
Julie Murphy (38:38)
But like so much more.
Like just so much more than that too. He's fantastic. so she calls him over and she gets out her own compact and powders my face. And I was like, I'm never
Jenna G Judith (38:51)
I'm never washing off this makeup ever again.
Julie Murphy (38:53)
watching
cait (38:53)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (38:53)
again. My husband was like hiding behind a camera and like took a little picture of it happening and I was like, When I die, this is my obituary photo. Just so you know. Yeah.
cait (39:02)
Yes, yes. I
would be like, I'm fine dying now. Like I'm I'm good. Like I did all the things. I'm fine.
Julie Murphy (39:06)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've done
everything there is to do. So
cait (39:12)
I'm like
Jenna G Judith (39:12)
Jen and
Dolly.
cait (39:13)
I feel like
it's happening to me when you tell that story.
Julie Murphy (39:16)
Good. I I
Jenna G Judith (39:16)
Like I can picture
Dolly.
Julie Murphy (39:18)
can't
those are experiences I can literally not hold within myself. Like if you think of your body and your brain as a bucket, I have to just remove those things from the bucket and only like recall them when someone asks me about them. Cause if I lived with those things in my head, I'd never get anything done. Like ever. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (39:38)
There's no need. Yeah. You you peaked.
cait (39:39)
There's no need. There's Yeah.
I don't think it does I don't think whatever you do, no matter how much success like after this, it does like
Julie Murphy (39:49)
No, and like
cait (39:50)
doll when dolly powders your nose. There's you did something really right.
Julie Murphy (39:52)
Yeah. Like what's amazing about Dolly
is like everyone is thrilled to meet Dolly. You know what I mean? Like she is famous to famous people. Like no
cait (40:03)
I love.
Julie Murphy (40:04)
one no one passes up a chance to meet Dolly. So
Jenna G Judith (40:04)
True. No.
Julie Murphy (40:08)
yeah, she's she's the best. Yeah.
cait (40:11)
I love my gosh.
Jenna G Judith (40:11)
And
Julie Murphy (40:12)
I wish I could sit here and be like, you want it's been
Almost ten years since Dumplin came out. I guess it will be ten years maybe next year. I don't know. I
Jenna G Judith (40:21)
No
Julie Murphy (40:22)
have to look it up.
cait (40:22)
Anniversaries.
Julie Murphy (40:23)
Well, ten years since the book, but like when I wanna be like, it's been ten years since the movie came out and I'm ready to tell you all the cd dark shit that happened. But there's and the thing is, like, that's such
Jenna G Judith (40:33)
And you're like, there is none. There was milk cookies in Dolly Parton?
Julie Murphy (40:36)
my personality. I would love I love conflict, I love drama, I would love to bring that all to your doorstep.
But it was such a pure good experience that I I there's it wasn't nothing nothing bad happened. Like it like I just I mean we
cait (40:52)
Damn it.
Julie Murphy (40:52)
I got in a fight with like the producers and the screenwriters sometimes about like things that you know, like wording on the script or like different scenes, but like I get in a fight with everybody, so
Jenna G Judith (41:06)
You are not clo you are not conflict averse. You are just like me.
cait (41:07)
Started it. You know, I things were too
Julie Murphy (41:09)
No. No.
cait (41:11)
good, so I just decided to
Julie Murphy (41:12)
No.
cait (41:12)
fucking throw down.
Julie Murphy (41:14)
Yeah. One time
Jenna G Judith (41:15)
Yeah.
Julie Murphy (41:15)
I Sierra is so conflict averse, like just it just makes her skin crawl. She hates it. And
Jenna G Judith (41:23)
That relationship
cait (41:23)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (41:24)
'cause you're besties?
Julie Murphy (41:25)
Well, I'm like, you're gonna fight with me. Like you're gonna tell me exactly how you feel, because I know that you don't like this. Like I know that your face is like doing the the buffering thing right now. So we're gonna talk about it. So we're she will fight with me and she will tell me no, and that's how I know she loves me. but one time I was I got this like totally out of pocket email from like a random reader and I was like, This is ridiculous. I can't believe they sent this. And she took my laptop and read it and was like, This is what I would say.
And then typed it and it wasn't that scary thing at all to me, but I was like, yeah, girl, and I hit send and she was like, what the fuck? She was like, that was just for us. You were supposed to delete it. This was just like a
Jenna G Judith (42:09)
No!
Julie Murphy (42:10)
this was just an emotional exercise for us. And I was like, it was great. I have no notes.
Jenna G Judith (42:16)
Yeah, yeah, that's like me and my husband. Like he never tells me no. The other
Julie Murphy (42:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (42:20)
day I asked him to go upstairs and get my laptop charger. He told me no. And I texted Kate immediately. I'm like, my husband I'm like, my husband told me no.
cait (42:27)
She literally talks to me about shooting and I like, What are you gonna do?
Jenna G Judith (42:30)
Like, what is this? I'm like, I'm I'm floored. It's been fifteen minutes.
cait (42:33)
Why is he rebelling? Why is
Jenna G Judith (42:35)
And he hasn't moved.
Julie Murphy (42:35)
Yeah. What do I do? Yeah.
cait (42:38)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (42:39)
And
cait (42:40)
You've probably got to do something about that.
Julie Murphy (42:42)
Yeah.
my gosh.
Jenna G Judith (42:45)
I swear we could talk to you all day.
cait (42:47)
my god. I'm like I'm like, okay, we're at
fifty minutes. I need to say, did we hit the are are there things that we didn't like?
Jenna G Judith (42:56)
The only thing we didn't hit was like the date of the book.
Julie Murphy (43:00)
yeah. The
book comes there is romance and sex, you know, if that's
your thing, there's kissing, so don't worry about that. The old people
Jenna G Judith (43:07)
Yeah. my god. Yeah, so
Julie Murphy (43:10)
do that and and the forty year olds do that, so yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (43:14)
Mm-hmm
cait (43:17)
It's okay to get old, everyone.
Julie Murphy (43:20)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (43:20)
What no no
no no wait wait I'm gonna pull up the quote because I highlighted it in my Kindle and my Kindle app because I just bought a Kindle for the very first time today. And I feel so accomplished. Okay.
In the end, we're all sluts and then we die. Words to live
Julie Murphy (43:37)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (43:37)
by.
Julie Murphy (43:39)
I have to tell you that that line is inspired by a line from one of my favorite movies, Jawbreaker with Rose McGowan, when she says life is a bitch and then you die and I was like,
Jenna G Judith (43:50)
Yes.
Julie Murphy (43:51)
Yeah, it is
Jenna G Judith (43:53)
I that was the very first one I highlighted. I'm like pss fucking sold.
cait (43:57)
There were
Julie Murphy (43:57)
Yeah.
cait (43:58)
s I yeah. my god. my god. I mean
Julie Murphy (44:02)
Man
cait (44:02)
the quot the the memes and quotes that are gonna come out of this book, I'm calling it I mean 'cause we're gonna
Jenna G Judith (44:06)
It's so c so quotable.
cait (44:08)
make them. 'Cause we knew we're gonna make
Julie Murphy (44:08)
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah. What's
cait (44:10)
all that.
Julie Murphy (44:11)
Yeah, please, please count me in on that. I I love a good man.
cait (44:13)
That's I literally think that
should be the release we content should just be like the fucking one-liners because they're so
Julie Murphy (44:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
cait (44:20)
insane. Like that one. There was my gosh. Michael was it Michael Douglas?
Jenna G Judith (44:24)
Fuckity fuck
cait (44:26)
Was it Michael Douglas at the end? Did she
Julie Murphy (44:29)
Everyone asked me this and I'm like, I don't care if it was.
So yes, let's say it's a Michael Douglas. Yeah.
cait (44:33)
I i I'm gonna just accept that it's Michael Douglas.
Jenna G Judith (44:37)
We have fuckading fucking fuckity fuck is mine. And then I
Julie Murphy (44:40)
Uh-huh.
Jenna G Judith (44:40)
have surely I wasn't the only person whose vagina was wider than that appalling excuse for a gusset. Are you fucking kidding me? Are you kidding me?
Julie Murphy (44:50)
But really, what are they thinking
anymore with gussets? Like I I shouldn't get a wedgie in my vagina lips. Like that's not a thing that should be happening. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (44:58)
No. No. Like go
to any person. Go to any person and show them that width. And they will be like, doesn't compute. No. And yet they keep fucking doing it.
Julie Murphy (45:07)
Yeah. No, no.
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (45:14)
This has been another episode of Margs and Manuscripts. Thanks for listening. Your hosts are Jenna G. Judith, Cait Waynelovich Our writer and public relations manager is Cait Waynelovich. Music by John Waynelovich Editor, Editor Jenna G. Judith. Creative direction, Jenna G. Judith. And our podcast manager, Cait Waynelovich Don't forget to like,
follow, subscribe, all that jazz. Visit our website at margsandmanuscripts.com and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
