She Turned a Situationship Into a Bestselling Book | Alissa DeRogatis
June 9, 2026
Featured Guests:
Alissa DeRogatis
Alissa DeRogatis is the author of Call It What You Want and the upcoming How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle. After self-publishing her debut novel and building a passionate online readership, she signed with Sourcebooks and has become known for her honest, relatable storytelling about modern relationships, heartbreak, and personal growth.
She is also the founder of Hot Girls Who Write, a writing community dedicated to helping authors connect, learn, and support one another through every stage of the writing journey.
What happens when a five-year situationship finally ends and leaves you wondering what comes next?
For author Alissa DeRogatis, the answer was writing the book she couldn't find on the shelf.
In this episode, we chat with Alissa about turning heartbreak into storytelling, self-publishing Call It What You Want, selling tens of thousands of copies, signing with Sourcebooks, and building a career by showing up authentically online. We also dive into the realities of book marketing, why comparison is one of the biggest traps for writers, and how her writing community, Hot Girls Who Write, grew from a simple desire to help other authors feel less alone.
Plus, we get a behind-the-scenes look at her upcoming novel, How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle, and the real-life experiences that inspired it.
In This Episode
How a situationship inspired Call It What You Want
Self-publishing without an editor—and why she has no regrets
Selling 50,000+ copies before signing with a traditional publisher
The journey from indie author to Sourcebooks author
Why comparison culture can derail writers
Using vulnerability as a marketing superpower
What actually worked on TikTok (and what didn't)
The realities of building an author brand online
Why authenticity is a major theme in How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle
The story behind Hot Girls Who Write
Creating community in an industry that can feel isolating
Book covers, branding, and trusting your creative instincts
How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle: A Novel
Alissa DeRogatis
If you can't write a good meet-cute, maybe you need to live one first…
Ainsley Green writes happily-ever-afters for a rabid fanbase of hopeless romantics. In real life? Her boyfriend just broke up with her, her editor wanted a new book yesterday and she's starting to wonder if love actually exists beyond the pages of her favorite novels.
So when Lucas, Ainsley's best friend and biggest cheerleader, insists the best cure for writer's block is real-life inspiration, she's ready to try anything. Enter: the meet-cute plan, a mission to take her head out of her heartbreak and force meet-cutes IRL to spark some new ideas. But as failed missions bumping into strangers at the airport and spilling coffee on men at the cafe result in nothing but embarrassment and stained clothing, Ainsley begins to wonder if maybe the romance she's been chasing already has a leading man.
Because the truth about falling in love? It never goes according to plan.
Equal parts heartbreak, humor, and hope, How to Find Love in the Cereal Aisle is a fresh, flirty send up of dating in the modern age and a reminder that love finds us when we stop performing and start living.
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Jenna G Judith (00:00)
Since starting our podcast in November, I feel like we're just collecting people of either guests or listeners or just besties of the pod. And I am very thankful that we finally get to add another one to the group, Alissa Derogatis We've been orbiting her for so long, Cait and we finally got to talk to her.
Cait (00:20)
We finally
get to talk to her. I'm so excited.
Jenna G Judith (00:24)
understand that we don't do the traditional author interviews by any means. If you see us having a questionnaire of things we need to talk to an author about, clearly we've down and smacked our little heads too hard.
Cait (00:39)
we are so excited to have her on today. She does Hot Girls Who Write. She has a book called Call It What You Want Out that basically went viral for how relatable it is and how much people could identify with her story. So I was desperate to talk to her about that experience. And then she has another book coming out. Can you believe it?
and August 4th, How to Find Love in a Cereal Aisle. You've seen her around, you've seen the book cover, you know exactly who I'm talking about. She's awesome and we're excited for her to join us today.
Jenna G Judith (01:14)
Welcome to the podcast, Alissa
Cait (01:21)
We're so pumped that you're here. I feel like we've been connected to you through best friends and people. And we were like, we have to talk to Alissa finally. And here we are.
Alissa (01:33)
I know. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Cait (01:36)
were signing on, I was literally just looking at which date exactly Cereal Aisle comes out.
Alissa (01:41)
August 4th.
Cait (01:42)
of
the fourth that's what it is.
Jenna G Judith (01:43)
gonna be like the perfect like segue into like the fall season. It's like a cozy read that you just like don't wanna put down. So I think it's gonna be perfect timing.
Alissa (01:55)
it.
Cait (01:57)
What does it look like in this part of it for you? Like the lead up kind of this, not a lot of months away, but like this far away. What does that look like?
Alissa (01:57)
It is.
Jenna G Judith (02:00)
Yeah.
Alissa (02:06)
Kind of a mind like we should have already announced book tour and stuff It looks good But i'm also like about to sell my third book like my option expires like this week and i'm like, of course it's gonna happen like when my third it Everything always happens all at once and then I there's nothing for so long All of it's quiet like in trad like and then all of a sudden you're getting six emails in one week And i'm like, I can't my head's not can't be straight. I'm like what is going on? So it's busy, but then also not like it really just depends
Yeah, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (02:36)
It's like feast or famine, kind of.
Cait (02:39)
purposely did not ask a lot of questions when I've been talking to Alissa But what's the story? I know you have a really cool story about the first book and how that came to be and how you got published and where you are now.
Alissa (02:53)
I was in a situationship and we had a breakup, you know, one of those we like dated for a year in college fell into like on again off again thing after post grad and COVID I feel like dragged it out even longer. And then all of a sudden it was five years and I was like, what am I doing? Like I, you know, we just both, I think like had feelings for each other, but I think we knew we weren't going to work out long term and finally just were like, this has to be over. And then I was reading a lot of romance because
all
my friends were in relationships. I was bored. was summer. And I was like, why does every book end with people together? Like that doesn't happen all the time. Like I knew I was going to be single for a hot minute because I'm not really a relationship person. And ⁓ then I realized the reason that romance books have a happily ever after is because it's actually a requirement of the genre. So I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Like I could have read like, you know, some Sally Rooney or something. And then I was like, screw it. I'm going to write my own book, posted about it on TikTok.
once and then.
from there people were like, when does this come out? I was like, I have like 30 pages, so this is take me a hot minute. And I just sat down and wrote every single day after work. I was working in an office five days a week, lived alone, came home, it was like my passion project. And it happened within like four months, I had a first draft and then I self published it. I did not even have an editor like guys, it was like real, like if you go to my Goodreads, like you can tell like, it's pretty, pretty rough, like, but you know what?
Jenna G Judith (04:23)
⁓
Alissa (04:24)
zero regrets because it brought me like then I got my agent by the end of that summer like I yeah, I released it like I'd used Grammarly like you know, like autocorrect like it was like I was like, Oh, comma there comma that in June of 2023. I was like, I want to sell 100 copies my first week I had 1000 the next week, like a few weeks as at 10,000 like, yeah. Yeah. I know it was
Jenna G Judith (04:46)
Snap! Holy shit!
Alissa (04:49)
Yeah, and then I signed with my agent in July. We went on sub in August. And then by the end of August, I had signed with my editor at Sourcebooks. But we didn't take that book offline until January. So I was still able to make money from Amazon. And then we announced the book deal in January after we had done some edits and things. And then the book came back out like June 2024.
And now here we are. signed a two book deal. So that's where Cereal Aisle like came into play.
Jenna G Judith (05:19)
God.
Cait (05:20)
So my question
because the branding of them both, they just look so good together and they are just so pretty. Yeah, they're so cute. I know what that is. Look at that freaking branding.
Alissa (05:26)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (05:29)
I love a pretty book. ⁓ so pretty.
Alissa (05:31)
My friend Haley actually created
this cover. ⁓ I worked with her at the job that I was at and then this one we did in-house with the design team at Sourcebooks. But yeah, they're so cute. I love the colors too.
Cait (05:46)
Yeah, they're
adorable. I'm like, so when I think of self-publishing and stuff, I'm like, how did you, did you keep the same cover or did they, like, how does that work when you self-publish and then they buy the book that you've published? How does that even?
Jenna G Judith (05:55)
Yes!
Alissa (06:00)
good question. don't, I mean, for cover, source books likes to do a lot of data driven things. like, they'll go out with like two or three title options and see if they test well with these focus groups. Same with covers. ⁓ so they just tested my cover. And I mean, by the time we had taken it offline, I had sold like 50,000 copies on my own. So like, we knew the cover was working. So.
there was no question about it. Then I'm kind of picky though, because I work in marketing. I, my job was social media marketing before like writing full time. Um, so we saw a lot of covers for Cereal Aisle, but I, they just bought the art from my friend Haley, who then she has her name on like the back cover here.
Cait (06:42)
That is super cool.
Yeah, I just feel like we never talk about that because we talk to a lot of either indie authors, a lot of trad published authors, people who do a mix of both. But I've never gotten to talk to somebody who's like, I had an indie book and then that book was bought by a publisher and basically republished, it seems like.
Alissa (06:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, we did do some tweaking like the story essentially is the same. ⁓ there's just like longer Scenes like we tried to do a little bit more depth like now
I've taken some workshops, I've taken writing classes. I have really tried to, you know, when you get that many bad reviews about how your writing sucks or it seems like a diary or like all those things. First of all, I'm in the camp of like, I don't wanna change my voice because it's who I am. Like all three of us could sit down with the same book concept and we could write different books, right? ⁓
Jenna G Judith (07:35)
Absolutely.
Alissa (07:36)
And I think the reason it did so well was because people saw themselves in the book and maybe that was the writing style, maybe it was a story, who knows. ⁓ But with Cereal Aisle, I really wanted to challenge myself to write a little bit more commercial, like, and make sure that I was like, at least, you know, hitting on character development and like, really like, ⁓ sitting in scenes longer instead of just jump, jump, jumping. And again, it's also not perfect. Like I'm, I didn't go to school for this. I don't have an MFA. It's just like, I just like to write stories.
So I think in, I don't know where I was going with that.
Jenna G Judith (08:11)
Yeah
Cait (08:11)
Thank
Jenna G Judith (08:12)
Poof, there it goes. like, hey, I thought that was great.
Alissa (08:13)
I don't know. don't know.
Cait (08:16)
It's super cool, but I think your story just shows like, fuck it, whatever. I sold 50,000 copies at, well, more than that, but that's such a good way to just, I don't know, that's good thing to put out there and just say that if you like to write and stop putting other authors on a pedestal and just do your thing.
Alissa (08:25)
Yeah.
Yeah,
well, the comparison culture is the worst part. Like, I don't want to open a book and see like, and be like, they're writing so much different than mine. Like, how do I make my writing like that? Because you're losing your originality then.
Cait (08:50)
Oh,
totally. We talk about that all the time, yeah.
Jenna G Judith (08:52)
That's such a good point.
Especially when you are in the beginning stages of your writing career and you're comparing yourself to people that have been writing for decades and you're like, yeah, they have such a strong voice or a strong character structure or whatever it is, whatever their trademark is. They took years to develop that. And even someone that's published like,
Alissa (08:54)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (09:21)
50 books. Like, they are not going to tell you that their books that they started with are the same as the books that they're doing now. So.
Alissa (09:30)
Yeah, even
like...
genre like shifting a little bit because Call Away You Want is more women's fiction. And then like Cereal Aisle is branded as like a romance, but it definitely leans a little bit more women's fiction because it's about the story of her like growth. then I always want to write more realistic stories. Like I'm still single. told my that breakup happened in 2022. And I'm like, yep, not even one guy like no talk, no good talking stages. Like, you know, there's been people but like, I think super serious.
Jenna G Judith (09:45)
Agreed.
Alissa (10:02)
I'm like, I want young women to know that there's like happiness and things that you can get out of life that's not just love, but there's always gonna be like a love story at the base of my books, I think. So when you do genre shift to it, I think changes your voice.
Jenna G Judith (10:13)
Yeah. ⁓
Mm-hmm.
Cait (10:19)
Yeah,
and there's not, and I think especially thinking about when Call It What You Want came out around that time, there was nothing about situationships and that had to stand clearly to a lot of people.
Alissa (10:29)
You know.
Yeah, I hate to be that girl. It's like I heard of Gracie Abrams first or like, you know, like things like that. It's like, but that's, I do feel like that with situation chips because one, wasn't a term when I was like in mind, like I don't even remember the first time I came across the term, but like when I was in college and post-grad, my mom would like,
my friends would be like, Oh yeah, her friends with benefits. And I was like, no, first of all, it's way more than just that you guys like, because, you know, I was like trying to defend it. Like to me, it was a relationship to him, like, who knows what it was. But and that's kind of how most situationships I do feel like lean, but it was embarrassing. Like, I feel like I was like, my friends like, why are you so upset over this guy? You never dated. I'm like, exactly. Like, that's why like I there's so many what ifs. Like, I think it's easier to break up with a shitty partner and be like, they were a shitty boyfriend. But
then for me it was like all about the potential. Well, if we did date, would he have been better? So I think being able to be honest and vulnerable with my feelings about situationships online hopefully helped other people open up and like, you know, now it's unfortunately really common to be in a situationship.
Jenna G Judith (11:39)
I love, like you're just little dig of, yeah, the guy just doesn't know what it is. Doesn't even know what's happening sometimes.
Alissa (11:46)
Thank
Yeah, literally.
Cait (11:50)
Yeah. And I
think Call It What You Want, it does a good job at like, trying to see it from his perspective a bit and like giving him some reasons of why he is the way he is. But at the end of it, she's just, mean, you know, we know they don't end up together, so that's not a spoiler. like, she's just like, well, I'm not. No thanks. Like, figure you should know.
Alissa (12:10)
Yeah, no it's not.
Yeah,
he's like, no, he's like, know that I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to do it anyway. I like there's so many people that like circle this one line and they're like, fuck you. And I'm like, yeah, exactly.
Cait (12:28)
Yeah, that's exactly, he's like, he's like, know, ⁓ cause Jenna, you read Sierra, I read, ⁓ call it what you want. And then when we rescheduled, I was like, I can do both now. ⁓ but he literally is like, he's like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to do it anyway. I know it's done.
Jenna G Judith (12:29)
Yup.
Mm-hmm.
Alissa (12:46)
Yeah,
I forget what the line is. Well, I know. And that's, mean, like, it's like, why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? Like, I was basically giving him like, an entire relationship without the strings or the responsibility. Why would he put a label on it? Yeah.
Cait (13:00)
Yeah, and she goes with it for a long time. She deals with it for way longer
than like, mean, who knows? I I dealt with it for way longer than anybody else probably thought they would.
Alissa (13:08)
Yeah.
Same.
Jenna G Judith (13:11)
my
God, Cait, are you just like drawing all of these like lines to your own personal life?
Cait (13:15)
Yeah, everyone does.
That's when you read Alice's
Alissa (13:17)
Yeah, you have to.
Cait (13:17)
work, everyone does.
Jenna G Judith (13:20)
Cause I'm like, I never experienced this. So, and I'm just like, this is really entertaining. And Cait's like, this is my fricking life.
Alissa (13:29)
Or people are so mad like I think that's also what makes a good book like you could like Jenna you could read that book and be like wow now I finally see you know Cait's what I like Situationship from her point of view or you could be like You know or you could be like this girl's a fucking idiot like and it's just fun and Like I don't know
Cait (13:46)
Yes!
is anybody like a theater geek?
But have you guys ever seen the last five years or listened to the last five years? Somebody listening will have listened to the last five years, but it's like both POVs of basically this couple and they both make so many mistakes, but everybody walks out of that show either hating one of the characters or they're just like, I hate this, and all you do is fight about who was right or who was wrong in the relationship. And that's how I felt reading Call It What You Want, at least it did a really good job at that. You just, so many opinions.
Alissa (14:11)
Okay.
exactly. It's kind of like tell me lies to that TV show. Like, it's like you're like, hate watching it. It's like hate reading it also. And I can look at that book and be like, like, I'm so glad I wrote it when I did. Because I think if I had written it now, it would be probably a lot less controversial, but it would be a lot less like raw and real. Like, I don't remember how it felt to like feel those feelings until I pick up the book and skim through it. And I'm like, ⁓ shit. Yeah, like that was, you know, because it's just like wanting someone to be loved.
and or like someone to love you that you love and then be like, why are they not choosing me? Like it sounds so desperate, but in the moment it was like, there must be something wrong with me. Why am I not enough? Like all of these things and getting to work through those feelings in real time. My therapist actually just told me, she was like, yeah, you process things like verbally. I'm like, yeah, that's why I write also. Like I have to like, my sub stack, I'll like write things as they happen. Like if I have a fight with one of my parents, they're getting that sub stack email to them in a few weeks.
Like You know, I'm not sharing like it's like a diary entry like it's just like, you know I can recognize that my parents this is their first time living too Like it's always kind but yeah helps me work through things So between sub sack and therapy and these books like people better watch out for me
Jenna G Judith (15:18)
I'm
Cait (15:19)
It's a bite.
But I, that's me. mean, that's Jenna comes up with crazy shit in her head and creates a world and like, I cannot do something unless I'm like emotionally motivated to do it. Yeah. And I can, I felt that a lot of that with, with you and just, I recognize a lot of that in the books too. I was like, she is like, we're the same in that way. ⁓ cause that's how my book that's coming out started is like, yeah, my.
Jenna G Judith (15:36)
Ha!
Alissa (15:49)
Sing. Me too.
Cait (16:06)
Situationship tried to break up with me and I went and wrote a chapter about when we were happy
Alissa (16:11)
That's it. I actually
had to.
I had to be like, can't write the beginning stuff. started towards the end. Like I wrote part two and then went back to part one. Cause I was so like heartbroken. was like, let me use these feelings. Like you said, Cait, like being emotionally motivated. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to feel. Like I can't write the time we met or like, well, obviously that's not even how we met, but like you're using those feelings. We, we meant we did meet in college and we were neighbors. lived right above me. So.
Cait (16:20)
⁓
so that's, that's
I do want to get into serial island. I know Jenna, Jenna's the marketing person here. And I like, I want to let you ask marketing questions because I did, I really wanted to talk to Alissa about her marketing and branding for new office.
Jenna G Judith (16:54)
Yes.
obviously you've been around the block for like marketing, but like, are you, are you doing like creative like book marketing? Or were you like in your day job? Or is this like a, you're bringing what you know into this space.
Alissa (17:14)
⁓ I'm bringing what I know into this space. So my day job before was I was in social media for ⁓ I started at ⁓ Goldfish like the
Jenna G Judith (17:17)
Yeah.
Alissa (17:23)
And then I went to a clothing company for like two years, which is where I was working in the office five days a week. And I was doing a lot of video posting for them. And I like just learned how to like, storytell like
through content versus just posting a photo and being like game time equals snack time. Like you don't need, if Goldfish never had an Instagram, you're still going to buy Goldfish, right? Like this new company that I was at was all like every time, like the more people see this one outfit, the more that they're going to be likely to buy it. Like we're trying to sell clothes. Like your job is to make sales. So I was like, okay. And so that was the first post that I ever did with call what you want was
Jenna G Judith (17:39)
Mm-hmm.
Alissa (18:08)
I got my heart broken. I wanted to read a book about people that didn't date. I couldn't find one. So I wrote one. And then that was like, that is exactly how it went. But it was like, boom, boom, boom to like some Harry Styles song or some shit. Next day I woke up. It was only like 250,000 views, but I woke up to like 3000 followers on TikTok. I'd had like 70 before that. So it was like that, you know, again, low view, lower view, but like high engagement, like rate there.
Jenna G Judith (18:23)
Check.
Alissa (18:36)
I just kept like kind of.
mimicking that my whole time I was like writing call it what you want to keep people interested or I'd sit down and with the camera and kind of take them through that. So do you think a lot of that marketing was also personally tied and that depends on how comfortable you feel share like comfortable you are with sharing that but I do think I like to compare it to like when you drive by a car wreck you're like driving but you like kind of want to see what's happening. Like I feel like people were nosy and they're like oh this girl's writing a book about her breakup like I have to read it like
Jenna G Judith (19:07)
haha
Alissa (19:08)
I have like, you know, so again, if like any of your books are emotionally like or or like tied to like anything personal, I do think being vulnerable is like a huge part along with like the way that I market it. But then I started when the book came out.
Jenna G Judith (19:12)
Ahem.
Alissa (19:23)
I started doing the swipes on TikTok, where was like, if you're in a situation ship, swipe, I wrote this book for you swipe. And then it was like, one chunk of like page or quote, and I would just post the same quotes, the like big ones that everyone was reading. And I mean, 4 million views, 3 million views, like I would sell one, one night I sold 100 and no one night I 1500 copies in one day from one of the posts, but
Jenna G Judith (19:49)
Holy
Cait (19:50)
That's awesome.
Alissa (19:52)
But if you think about that rate too, like 4 million views, only 1500 people, like then think about, you get it, know, like people were saving it, probably bought it later, added to their cart when they got paid. yeah, I just, I don't know. These ideas came to me. I loved seeing quotes when I was going through my breakup and I was like, perfect. I bet if I like seeing quotes, someone else has to, so I'm gonna use my book and make quotes out of it.
Jenna G Judith (20:17)
Mm-hmm. And it ⁓ my god, like this is like if you are in marketing you Not only have like a big leg up when it comes to like marketing your own book because you know What like looks good, you know what performs well But I also feel like you're more willing to try stuff like you're more willing to like maybe not
have to think so hard about like, oh, I'm just gonna give this a whirl. I'm just gonna give that a whirl. And it almost like takes the pressure off.
Alissa (20:46)
Yeah, if it doesn't
do well, sometimes I'll write a sub stack post and I've been posting those on Instagram. I'm like, oh, I really like this one and it will get like 200 likes. I'm like,
All right, well, I still like it, so it's fine. It needs to live somewhere. It's not like about it. And then like two weeks later, it'll actually have a thousand likes or something. you can't like, you have to post things because you want to. Same with like write the book because you want to not write it because romanticity is trending and I want to be like hop on the bandwagon because I want to sell books. It's never going to work. You have to do like what feels right to you.
Jenna G Judith (21:07)
Right.
Yes, and you have to be like, you are not your book. Like your brand is not your book. Your brand is you. And when you are the brand, people want to connect with you. Like I think, who was it? ⁓ I forget where I saw the quote, but it was like, if you had 20 different fans of your book, come and sit down at a cafe and come and like randomly talk to you, would you talk like?
Alissa (21:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jenna G Judith (21:50)
Would you want them to ask you about like, like, re- like quoting parts of your book or would you rather have them ask, tell me why you wrote it this way? Tell me how you arrived here. And it's all about you. It's like, let's just talk about myself. And it's, you know, like it's, it's nothing about really, yes, like 50 % of it is your book. That's like one of your campaigns, like if you will, but.
Alissa (22:03)
Thank you.
I mean,
Jenna G Judith (22:18)
They have to have that like strong emotional connection to you as the person. And I think that's where so many people like, they're not willing to be themselves or be the person that people connect with. I'm like, just give it a try.
Alissa (22:22)
Mm-hmm.
That's
what I think is so weird. had to sign all these book plates the other day and send them back to my publisher.
And people were DMing like, how can I get one? I'm like, why do we people want me to like sign their book? It feels so weird. Like, cause I'm like creating something here you go. But like, I don't feel cool enough. Like, you know what I mean? Like I'm like, I'm not Taylor Swift. Like, why do you want me to sign something? Like it seems, yeah, it is. It's funny. Like I do feel like my brand is me. And I talk about this in therapy too. Like sometimes like, I feel so self centered or selfish or this or that. And she's like, well,
Cait (22:47)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (23:00)
Yes.
Alissa (23:07)
Your career is essentially you like you're in a different spot like I hate when my friend not my friends But you're at like friends of friends and they're like, oh, he saw you went on book tour this or that I'm like I don't want to talk about myself but what's going on with you and I get it's because it's a cool different job, but so I I love myself I love talking about myself, but I also think there's like a fine line of like, okay you do this for work It's hard to also then do it like in person, too
Jenna G Judith (23:31)
Mm-hmm. Like I don't know how authors that are like, you know, like Rebecca Yarros like just throwing that out there, like how she can go from, I'm like a person, like leave me alone, but also like connecting with readers. And I'm just like, what a world we live in where people like idolize authors to this degree. It's crazy.
Alissa (23:54)
Thank you.
Cait (23:56)
think it's weird thing too
because we do like enjoy being alone. Like what we do is so solitary that like to put us out in front of people is it's honestly like I love being on here because I feel like it's very like I'm here with two other people and we're just we're being ourselves. We're talking, we're having drinks and we're chatting about things that I feel like a lot of other people go through that do what we do. But then to think like when we get our numbers back for listeners and stuff I'm like people are
Jenna G Judith (24:02)
my god.
Damn.
Cait (24:24)
who's listening to this? Like who is out there listening? And it's nice, but it's also the most terrifying thing on the planet. So then to think of like 3 million people viewing your post, like from viewing your bedroom writing by yourself.
Alissa (24:32)
Thank
Mm hmm. Yeah, so, you know, and
Jenna G Judith (24:38)
Gah!
Alissa (24:41)
that's what I think that's too why like I took those reviews at first. So ⁓
Harshly when you talked about imposter syndrome on your episode with Meg Rosenthal, I can relate to that from like a just a standpoint of like, I had feelings. I wrote this book and people then ripped me to shreds on Goodreads. I think not realizing and even maybe they did realize I didn't didn't care, but that these were like this was a real person and those were my real feelings. Even though it's fiction, like so much of Sloan in this book is my like what I went through, like how could it not be? And so to have like those
those
comments like.
felt really tough for me, but I was like, also, let me think of the people that it helped instead of, you know, the people that didn't like it and decided to go and tell me why on Goodreads. And but I think that's that's the tough part of like this industry is like, yeah, you're sitting here. I think you're going to get much more positive feedback when you're actually your true self and you're being authentic and vulnerable than trying to be a version of you to like that everyone's going to like because newsflash, not everyone's going to like you or your book, which is totally fine. Like all three of us probably have a different
author a book and like it's normal.
Jenna G Judith (25:51)
Yeah, like I don't want everyone to like me. Is that weird?
Alissa (25:53)
Yeah, exactly. I wrote this for a very specific
person and if it's not you, that's totally fine, but.
Jenna G Judith (25:59)
Yeah, like there are other books for you in the in the sea. Like it doesn't need to be mine.
Alissa (26:02)
Yeah. Yeah,
Cait (26:04)
I feel
like in Cereal Aisle you talk about authenticity a lot and how that works for your main character in that book and she definitely uses that. So I feel like that this is a theme in general in the next chapter for you.
Alissa (26:05)
exactly.
Jenna G Judith (26:08)
Yes.
Alissa (26:20)
Yeah, I know I did base Ainsley a little bit off of myself in the sense that I was on book tour and I was like, this is really cool. I don't really feel like I get to.
Hear about authors doing this like why don't they vlog and like that's why I like this space that you guys are creating too and that's why I Created my writing community hot girls who write because like you said kate writing is so solitary but like Getting to be on here and talk to other people and realize like we all have these same feelings or maybe you're struggling with this and i'm struggling with this and helping each other through that I felt that way too with book tour. I was like, ⁓ I want to vlog this this time because maybe another author wants to watch because they're interested or because they want to
to get there or because they're going on their first tour and they're nervous or something just to and also to have the memories for myself like I don't care if it gets one view or like a thousand views and so when I was on that tour I was like this could be a really fun like way to like I wanted to write a book about an author because it's such it happened to me kind of randomly like I never
Jenna G Judith (27:07)
Yeah!
Alissa (27:24)
planned for to write a book or anything and then now I'm like wow I can't imagine my life without it so she is kind of me. I see parts of myself in both of these characters and like you said I think being emotionally motivated is like the only way that I can write.
Jenna G Judith (27:42)
So when you started How to Find Love in the Cereal Isle, did you kind of know that you wanted this theme of authenticity and being yourself versus what everyone is kind of telling you to be? Or is that something you just unearthed? You're like, I sense a theme here.
Alissa (28:02)
no, definitely I am nerd.
that this book would be different. ⁓ When it first started, it actually was mostly a breakup book. So those past chapters, that like, I do think some people think take away from that love story. And maybe that's where it becomes a little bit more women's fiction. That was like the entirety of the book. And my editor was like, Hey, there's like no plot here. Like, there's no commercial hook. It's just like, if what's going on, and I was like, and you know what, that's so fair. Like, and so she was actually the one who kind of came up with the idea of like,
Why don't we have her like go on dates when she's on book tour and I was like
Okay, but if she's going on dates when she's on book tour like she's probably doing them on hinge or bumble and like then every dates like gonna look the same, know, and I when I was on book tour I met this guy in the airport Security line and we wound up becoming like friends. We like exchanged Instagrams like we almost wanted a date last time I was like in his city never worked out And I was like this could be really fun Like that's a cute meet cute to put in a book one day and I thought I was gonna write a whole nother book about two characters That's how they meet but then that's how we came up
with the Me Cute mission where she puts herself into these really cringey situations that I would never do by the way. Like I would rather die than like, but ⁓ yeah. that was really the main theme. Everything that she feels as an author is me a hundred percent like over, not the writer's block piece because I haven't, I've felt that sitting down and staring at an empty page, but I've never been like, wow, I can't write another story. Like, you know, but I felt like that was true to her.
Jenna G Judith (29:13)
my god.
Yes! my god, like we've been talking all about you and your phug, but let's talk about that! Yes!
Cait (29:40)
Let's talk about your other accomplishments, God.
Alissa (29:47)
⁓ well, I thank you. I love hot girls who write I I don't view it as an accomplishment I kind of just view it like as a space that like I don't I you know, but I When I was indie publishing or indie, right what? Yeah when I was an indie author and even when I was just writing that book There were so many people that I would like look up to I saw there was some people that went indie to trad and I would DM them
Cause I was really confused. Like, you get a literary lawyer? Is this agent percentage like standard? Like, do I have someone look over the contract? Like just at random questions and no one would ever answer me. And I was like, perfect.
So that was a big motivator for me creating Hot Girls Who Write was just like creating a space where people could ask questions and share experiences and resources. ⁓
also
was in this workshop cohort type of thing for a semester where we would do weekly write-ins where we would just write on our projects and like go on mute, And I was like,
maybe this is like a way for me to create something that didn't cost me $600 for six weeks,
But yeah, I wanted to be inclusive and hot girl. You don't have to be a woman to join. Like it's just an energy. Hot people who write didn't sound the same. Hot girl. We call it like a mindset, you know. ⁓ Just I have to give that just a little.
Jenna G Judith (31:09)
love that. Hot people didn't
sound right. cause you're totally right.
Alissa (31:12)
Did it.
Cait (31:14)
Hot girl
with- I don't know. I loved it because I just, yeah, I want to call myself a hot girl who writes and-
Alissa (31:21)
Yeah,
I'm like, and every Patreon post, I'm like, hey, hot girls.
Cait (31:27)
energy I need to get through the next book.
Alissa (31:29)
Yeah, sometimes
you need a reminder. Like, we're all hot and we write.
Jenna G Judith (31:33)
Yeah, like I need this like on my little bulletin board that's in front of me. my god, do remember the Ryan Gosling like, hey girl. Yeah, it's like that, but it's like, hey hot girl who writes.
Cait (31:33)
Yeah.
Alissa (31:37)
Exactly.
Cait (31:38)
Absolutely.
Hey, girl.
Yeah, some hang
real energy. I love it.
Alissa (31:51)
That's incredible. I know I need to get like merch done sometime soon. I was thinking about that.
Jenna G Judith (31:55)
Yes.
Cait (31:56)
You guys don't have a-
Jenna G Judith (31:57)
Yeah.
Cait (31:58)
What? Your merch would kill!
Alissa (32:00)
Well, we.
Jenna G Judith (32:01)
my god,
it would slay so hard.
I love how you built it out of necessity You're like, there is a hole here and we need to fill it and we need to fill it now.
I feel like you can go to any like writers association and you're bombarded with resources, but is it catered to you and your writing journey? No. Are you going to be able to use every single one of them? Probably. But do you need to? Probably not. So I
Alissa (32:22)
Mm-hmm.
Exactly.
Jenna G Judith (32:29)
I just love how you like, you're essentially doing exactly like what we're doing. You saw a hole, you wanted to fill it, you wanted to bring people together. And it's like this beautiful little moment that I'm so thankful that writing gave us. It is a solitary thing, but when you get to connect with other solitary indoor cats, it's really fun.
Alissa (32:45)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
it's so fun. Before every write-in, we go around and say our writing win of like the week. So you get to like get to know people when they have a release. We'll celebrate that. ⁓
Jenna G Judith (32:58)
Yeah.
Alissa (33:04)
like just anything. mean, even if they have a heart, something hard going on, I try to put the money I get back into the community too. And like other ways. ⁓ but someone's like parent died and I sent a door dash gift card from all of us, like to make sure that they just had, didn't have to deal with food for like that week or something. Or, you know, like there's just everyone does people too. It's like, and I do feel like we'll go in there and some people are like, yeah, I 2,500 words. And someone's like, I actually took a thousand words out of my manuscript or I haven't written in weeks and my win is
just showing up, like everyone's at different stages, but it, you know, it doesn't make anyone's stage less than like, I think we're all, you know, just different struggles.
Jenna G Judith (33:38)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Cait (33:45)
Totally. we like, yeah, we definitely preach a lot about community and even just engagement together. So anyway, thank you for creating that space because it is like, it is really cool. We need to encourage people, more people to join those spaces because they do seriously make a difference.
Jenna G Judith (33:46)
Love it.
Alissa (33:46)
it's just
you.
Cait (34:05)
branded really well because you're really good
Jenna G Judith (34:08)
Hahaha!
Alissa (34:08)
I just,
it's just my thing. don't know. I saw some of the book covers for Cereal Aisle, was like, We had to go back to the drawing board so many times and I felt so bad, but I was just like, seriously? that, like what? But we got the beautiful cover out of it. Like I love it so much. The bag charm is probably one of my favorite things. And then this little guy.
Cait (34:10)
It's killing.
That's gonna, that's gonna.
Jenna G Judith (34:32)
I love it. It's
brilliant.
Alissa (34:35)
It's supposed
Cait (34:35)
Yeah, that's
fine.
Alissa (34:36)
to be like getting a boyfriend's as easy as grabbing a bottle of wine at the grocery store. And this is all I need anyway, a boyfriend, a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine. So perfect. Who needs anything else?
Jenna G Judith (34:46)
Yeah, throwing some cheese and
Cait (34:46)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (34:47)
I'm sold, man.
Cait (34:49)
it.
Alissa (34:50)
Yeah, we do. Yeah, the cheese. Missing
Jenna G Judith (34:51)
Oh, yeah,
Alissa (34:53)
the cheese.
Jenna G Judith (34:53)
yeah. But like, how do you make cheese appetizing and in like a 2D illustration style? A little hard. have met me in real life, you know I'm an actually kind person. But if you would hear the inner monologue that I have about people's book covers of like,
Alissa (34:58)
You don't.
Jenna G Judith (35:13)
What the fuck were they thinking? Why? Who paid for this shit? I'm like... Like it is...
Alissa (35:18)
I'm also not. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And everyone has their
own thing. Like some people don't have an ⁓ eye for design or they don't care about what the book cover looks like. They're more about the story. I have said this on
too many podcasts and so many interviews. I do judge a book by its cover. And I do think so many people have picked up my book being like, that's a cute ass cover. I'm going to grab it. And then they don't, they think it's a romance and then they're sorely mistaken. And they're like, damn, this book really got me. But it's like, okay, you could, you could turn it over and read the back. Like I'm not, you know, just trying to sell you based on the image. But I also think what you said earlier about like marketing and asking, ⁓ kind of how I've decided to
Jenna G Judith (35:35)
100%.
100%.
Alissa (35:59)
market the books, I don't like character art. I don't like character focused covers. Even the trope posts that I did recently, was like, this usually isn't me. I'm marketing it in different ways. I knew that I wanted, I don't know. I'm not doing the basic things that I feel like lot of romance authors are doing. And by basic, I don't mean like basic in a bad way. just mean like kind of their, yeah, like the expected things. And I just try to come from it like.
Jenna G Judith (36:20)
expected.
Alissa (36:26)
with it for me. Like, I don't know.
Jenna G Judith (36:29)
Like,
and if you have a background in it, clearly you have like a level of taste that people like. So then... Yeah!
Cait (36:35)
you're okay taking those risks. You know, cause I think that like
Alissa (36:38)
Yeah.
Cait (36:40)
there's, someone who doesn't, ⁓ there's so much pressure to be like, I have to do what's commercial or I have to do with the market that says that I have to do and to like, to write a romance and not to have like two cartoon people on it is like groundbreaking at the moment. like, I, yeah, it's smart.
Alissa (36:59)
Yeah, I was just, was about
to make a comment and be like, if you ever see me selling character art, just know I'm struggling. But then I was just thinking about it more. And like, I wonder if it's actually like a good, if people would actually eat it up, but I just don't want to see my characters in a cartoon form. Like I cannot do that to myself.
Cait (37:17)
Yes,
I couldn't even picture what that would look like. I just hated everything that came to my head when I thought of that image.
Alissa (37:23)
It feels
too childish, especially with like sex scenes, I just, it's not my vibe.
Cait (37:27)
Yeah, I agree. I agree, but it was a hard choice as an indie author to be like, I don't want character art. because there's every Instagram, every TikTok you see, it's like, here's what the standard is. The industry standard is like, everyone needs to invest in character art and everybody needs to invest in like an animated cover. Like, yeah. So it's nice to talk to you guys and I thank God I had Jenna and.
Jenna G Judith (37:29)
Like, if people are going...
Alissa (37:29)
Thank
Yeah.
Cait (37:54)
And it's nice to hear your perspective and it's refreshing because you feel like you're making like a radical choice at the moment.
Alissa (38:02)
Yeah, never say never like I might do it one day or like if my publishers like hey, here's all this data on why it would help you I'd be like, okay, sure, but like, I'm not going to frame it and put it on my desk. Like I can't have that staring back at me all day. Like I just you know, I like the Pinterest photos, but even the ones about people's faces like I don't want I, I don't I don't know almost like my characters don't feel like they have faces to me like I can't put the face to to these these people. So that's why I think the character parts hard.
Jenna G Judith (38:16)
Absolutely not.
Cait (38:31)
Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (38:31)
I do love if this is your vibe post. Almost the inspo boards love those posts because everyone, if you're reading a particular book, it is a vibe. Especially if it's a dark academia kind of thing of like, yeah, vibe check, 100%. But yeah, I just...
Alissa (38:36)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yeah.
I do.
Jenna G Judith (38:57)
I have thoughts and I have feelings about all the cartoon character art, especially like you said, Alissa, if they're having sex, I don't want to see a cartoon of that shit. Like, no. It is and it's weird. Like, no.
Cait (39:07)
Such a thing though.
Alissa (39:08)
Yeah. It's weird. It's like anime. Like I don't
think Yeah, I don't. agree.
Cait (39:16)
so we are at an hour. I don't want to take any more of your time because we could definitely talk for more than a couple of
Jenna G Judith (39:24)
Yes.
Alissa (39:24)
So how to find love in the Cereal Aisle releases on August 4, that's my sophomore novel. And it follows Ainsley Green, who's a romance author who just got broken up with and she's going on her first book tour. And she has a new romance novel to deliver to her editor. And she's feeling really stuck. And she creates this mission meet cute mission to try to gain inspiration for this novel but
somewhere along the way, it kind of turns into a way for her to fall in love, sort of. Yeah, I don't know. I can't tell. I mean, it's like a friends to lovers, but do I even want to say that? I say it online, but I'm like, in the elevator pitch, feel like it gives it all away. So I got to work on that, but thank you for giving me a space to start it.
Jenna G Judith (39:57)
Sort of. Maybe.
Cait (39:57)
I'm excited. You guys are going to love it.
Jenna G Judith (40:09)
All
Yes! Good.
Cait (40:15)
it a good job, but
not like, I don't know. And who says we have to be all the things that they say we have to be? Like, just let it be. Let it be what it is. it was adorable. We loved it. I love it. It's really exciting for this to be your second book. And yeah, thanks for letting us know that.
Alissa (40:18)
Yeah.
No, exactly. Just let it be. Yeah.
Jenna G Judith (40:25)
Just don't make me have to check a box.
Alissa (40:28)
you
Thank you for reading. was really sweet.
Jenna G Judith (40:39)
Big fan.
This has been another episode of Margs and Manuscripts. Thanks for listening. Your hosts are Jenna G. Judith, Cait Waynelovich Our writer and public relations manager is Cait Waynelovich. Music by John Waynelovich Editor Jenna G. Judith. Creative direction, Jenna G. Judith. And our podcast manager, Cait Waynelovich Don't forget to like,
follow, subscribe, all that jazz. Visit our website at margsandmanuscripts.com and don't forget to hit that subscribe button.
